Florida State Seminoles

[eCat]

so if you can't find someone to take part in your evil scheme then you're not evil? you need to rethink that one.

nobody's going to offer me a $150K job so that's a moot point but it doesn't change how I feel. greed is the major currency of American business and it's going to cause it to devour itself and the rest of us. it's probably nothing new in this country but it's at an extremely dangerous level now and part, a big part, of the problem is people thinking there is an inherent altruism in big business and the gov't is the bad guy. they're all bad guys.

corporations don't have a conscience. Politicians were for hire, corporations paid whatever as a part of doing business. I'm not taking up for them, I'm just saying that if government did its job, corporations would be held in check.

[Bklyn]

If a certain branch of the government did its job, the pollution of corporate cash would not be as putrid as it is now.

[AugustWest]

yeah, the legislature has inconstantly voted more and more perks from corporations with less oversight for the last 30 years. Hell the day of the Boston marathon bombing they passed a law once again allowing themselves to insider trade on Wall Street. I bet Martha Stewart was pissed. Both parties are scum.

[Bklyn]

I agree there, but they've always been crooks on the Legislative side...the branch I was talking about was the Judicial Branch. Citizens United changed the game and it's all shit now.

[Saint]

so if you can't find someone to take part in your evil scheme then you're not evil? you need to rethink that one.

nobody's going to offer me a $150K job so that's a moot point but it doesn't change how I feel. greed is the major currency of American business and it's going to cause it to devour itself and the rest of us. it's probably nothing new in this country but it's at an extremely dangerous level now and part, a big part, of the problem is people thinking there is an inherent altruism in big business and the gov't is the bad guy. they're all bad guys.

corporations don't have a conscience. Politicians were for hire, corporations paid whatever as a part of doing business. I'm not taking up for them, I'm just saying that if government did its job, corporations would be held in check.

Oh, I agree with that last statement and that's why I don't believe gov't is inherently bad. Sure the current set-up sucks but gov't still has the ability to change, whereas I don't think the private sector ever will. but when nimrods automatically think the gov't is the problem, then that's a problem.

[hedge]

I don't see much difference b/w government and big business. Government is the biggest business there is, it just isn't run very efficiently...

[eCat]

I don't see the people the run government as evil, but I do see them as corrupt, and our government is a one trick pony.

Their only power is based on spending money on the public, and the public has been conditioned to look to government to give them money, which is why they continually allow it to grow, invade their lives and put up with the kind of bullshit we do.

Occasionally they legislate, like when they quietly repealed the law that said not only they but their staffers cannot do insider trading

What I see now is this double dipping on the taxpayer. The federal government gives less to the state because its revenues are down, but also because its shifting money to income security programs - extended unemployment, health care, food stamps, etc. And in turn the state government pulls that money from the local government, and in turn the local government looks to me to make up the difference. So I now have increased tax burden at the federal level and at the local level while my state is cutting everything it can like state parks, improvement programs, etc to stay solvent.

Its gone way beyond a safety net, its a lifestyle choice. Becoming an unwed mother used to be a shameful act , a scarlet letter of society, now its celebrated with the assumption that the majority of this mothers and children are going to be on government assistance. Disability is the same way. All you have to do is look at people getting out of cars at handicap parking spots in Wal-Mart for about 30 minutes. There aren't any good jobs so OUCH..my back, I can't lift anything over 20 pounds!

I know I'm close to IB territory here but the difference is I don't expect someone to work for $8 an hour , live like an immigrant mexican and wait for the American dream to come to them. But I do believe there has to be a dramatic shift in how we govern and what people expect from our government...and quite honestly, from themselves.

[hedge]

"I don't see the people the run government as evil, but I do see them as corrupt"

I see them as mostly dimwitted and lazy....

That's some of the career workers at the lower levels. I'm talking about the power brokers.

[Saint]

I think people do take advantage of the system but goddamn, I see that mentality trickling down, to take another view of Reagan's paradigm. You used to be able to get affordable health insurance from your employer and now, for a number of reasons but primarily because it affects the bottom line, you can't (at least for the vast majority of those who don't make $50K a year). You used to be able to buy a product that would last for years and now they don't because it affects the bottom line. You see corporations grabbing whatever they can from the gov't, why should you not expect a poor person to do the same?

My take is that gigging the gov't is what everyone in this country has come to do, from the wealthiest corporations to the fattest, laziest ghetto welfare mothers, to be frank. And everyone wants to blame everyone else. We are in an unsustainable economy and the biggest obstacle is the continued insistence that it's one group's fault. We have politicians more worried about getting elected or re-elected than trying to find an acceptable solution that will benefit and demand sacrifice from all.

I may be getting old and cranky but everywhere I see hypocrisy and laziness, from the top to the bottom.

[aTm]

Now you see the violence inherent in the system!

[eCat]

its not just one group - social security has become a retirement plan not a supplemental plan, medicaid, medicare is health insurance for the most costliest, neediest group - every American has been conditioned to believe that the government is going to take care of them should they need it, the problem is the bar for "need it" has been lowered - in part because there are so few jobs that actually pay a living wage for the average American, in part because governments involvement in an attempt to help has actually caused more harm (housing price increases turning into a housing bubble, health costs, education costs, regulations, taxes, on and on). I've never one to hammer the "lazy American or welfare queen" - If they do exist I firmly believe its because society has allowed them to exist because this idea of the safety net. The country is broke now with very little guidance on how we're going to dig out of this. It's easier to wait for the inevitable crash than to go thru the pain of fixing it.

There are too few people that can afford to live in this society without government assistance. The bigger problem is that there are too many that see living this way as a right. Where I blame the corporations is their insistence on having an obligation to the stockholder above their obligation to the long term security and well being of their country. I can't get past that our minimum wage pay is lower than our poverty line. Globalization for many corporations puts them on a path to living in America but profiting from overseas, and therefore they have little connection to improving the daily life and value of those around them. I suspect at some point they won't even care if they live in America once more cities start turning into Detroit. Perhaps the oncoming energy boom in this country will allow us a respite and a jolt in the arm for employment similar to the dot com boom of the 90's but until we get to the point that the average person in this country can expect to make a living wage by the time they are 26 by getting a "regular" job, this problem is never going to be solved.

[Saint]

Where I blame the corporations is their insistence on having an obligation to the stockholder above their obligation to the long term security and well being of their country. I can't get past that our minimum wage pay is lower than our poverty line. Globalization for many corporations puts them on a path to living in America but profiting from overseas, and therefore they have little connection to improving the daily life and value of those around them.

agree 100%. and beyond that, I not only blame them but am incredulous as to how this unsustainable model continues. at some point, it will trickle up.

but my outrage is reserved for those who are getting screwed but continue to help those doing the screwing. I guess some of that is unavoidable for many Americans because I'll go to Walmart to buy something cheaper. But at the same time, I'm trying to buy as much food from local sources and do try to shop locally whenever feasible. Most people just don't care or they don't know there are options.

I have less optimism that things are going to be better in the future. Maybe I should just find that $150K corporate job and not worry about it...

[crashcourse]

its gonna be up to our kids to say fuc- you we are not paying for your laziness

my kids already our getting the message that we are fucking them down the road and letting me know about it.

problem is when 50% of the voters live off the governement tit they are going to continue to vote for the status quo

that number has to come down

[Bklyn]

The ironic thing is that out of that 50% living off the gov't tit, about 30-40% of them don't realize that they are living off said tit...and don't vote accordingly. So, they are already voting against the status quo. It's people in the Northern states that don't have the same concentration of government subsidized individuals in their locales that keep voting to subsidize the teat suckers.

[hedge]

"That's some of the career workers at the lower levels. I'm talking about the power brokers."

That looks like Stu's reply to me, but it's in my post. I didn't write that. WTF?

[hedge]

"Maybe I should just find that $150K corporate job and not worry about it..."

Logan will hire you, but you're too scared to take him up on it...

[Saint]

Logan's toast after this shit with Bloomberg this week. great move by me.

[hedge]

What Bloomberg shit?

[aTm]

I thought Logan was riding out the apocalypse in the Phillipines?

[hedge]

His massive corpus still has the slants in thrall. You're not quite at his level, but only b/c of height. Your massive belly would still be a huge draw over there...