Florida State Seminoles

[AlabamAlum]

If they lost a recruit recently (since 2010) it's because it was obvious that Penn State was gonna suffer about this. Most knew it was gonna - if JoePa had turned this in back in 1998 they get nothing. PSU just rightfully turns a predator in. Nothing else. The media would laud Paterno, as was their habit, anyway. I don't think that PennState having a former coach who was a pedophile hurts recruiting in any real way. Would one or two recruits not come for one or two years? Maybe. But I doubt it.

[AlabamAlum]

I have guns. In Alabama, a background check is required when you buy from the stores or the shows.

I do not have a federal license for a true assault weapon. Never wanted one, but if I did, I would go through the proper channels. Most criminals will not.

Speaking of which, have you heard about the on-line sales of illegal weapons? It's happening, just like with drugs.

[T Dot O Dot]

Well, they lost one recruit last year over this. Now, the argument could be made that the defection (to OSU, I believe) was due to the longstanding coverup, not the sex scandal, per se. But, I'm not so confident that a teen will not look at a school with a homosexual child sex scandal being broadcast daily for the greater part of a year, involving the coaching staff of their chosen sport, with a bit of hesitation when it comes to Signing Day.

I also think you think way more highly of the parents of D1 college football players than I do.

Isnt that just Urban Meyer sniping other teams verbal commits? He did the same to Michigan State & Minnesota as well I think

charge the people directly involved to the full letter of the law, remove the statue and vacate the wins.

dont touch the schollys and let the team move on

[Bklyn]

If they lost a recruit recently (since 2010) it's because it was obvious that Penn State was gonna suffer about this. Most knew it was gonna - if JoePa had turned this in back in 1998 they get nothing. PSU just rightfully turns a predator in. Nothing else. The media would laud Paterno, as was their habit, anyway. I don't think that PennState having a former coach who was a pedophile hurts recruiting in any real way. Would one or two recruits not come for one or two years? Maybe. But I doubt it.

I'm not saying that Paterno doing what he should have done 13 years ago would have led to sanctions. I'm saying that the ensuing media frenzy and trial would spook off some recruits; enough to make PSU a bit weaker of a team. That was the crux of my "competitive advantage" argument. You feel differently. I officially call stalemate.

I do not have a federal license for a true assault weapon. Never wanted one, but if I did, I would go through the proper channels. Most criminals will not.

How many of these mass killings (Columbine, Tucson, Aurora, VA Tech I, VA Tech II, University of Texas?) were via illegally procured guns? Are we talking about keeping all criminals away from guns, or simply making it more difficult so our domestic gun violence rate gets somewhere close to the rest of the developed world?

[Bklyn]

Dot

Has the NCAA ever leveled a penalty that didn't touch scholarships? I can't think of one. It's what they do.

[AlabamAlum]

We will have to agree to disagree, Bklyn. I do not think PSU suffers one iota with recruiting or perception if Paterno turns him in in 1998. In fact, I think it would be just the opposite.

Also, the NCAA has many times leveled " major sanctions" without touching scholarships. In fact, Alabama was hit with a "Major" in 2007 (for our book loan program) that did not involve loss of scholarships.

[Bklyn]

what was the penalty?

[AlabamAlum]

Had to vacate 20 wins.

[eCat]

Clearly I'm in the "not" category but I don't agree that we should have federal laws that allow a person to bring a gun into a bar or whatever.

Virtually every American believes in some gun control (The second Amendment actually doesn't use the word gun but instead uses "arms"). The real question is where the line should be drawn. At handguns or handheld surface-to-air missiles.

I wouldn't make a blanket statement like that. I think there is a significant number of people who see the second amendment going well beyond the concept of individual protection. And we've never had a more pro gun congress than we do now (over the last say 3 decades). That isn't due to the power of the NRA but the strong opinions voiced by individuals (and backed by the supreme court) about the right to own firearms in this country.

[Jungle Rat]

Vacating wins is a joke. The games were played fairly. (as long as wiz wasn't a ref)

[Bklyn]

Had to vacate 20 wins.

Ah, OK. I stand corrected.

[eCat]

Vacating wins is a joke. The games were played fairly. (as long as wiz wasn't a ref)

yea I mean the president lost his job, the coach is disgraced (and dead), Sandusky will die in prison, the kids playing for Penn St, the students, the faculty - no one currently at the program had anything to do with this incident. Not to mention Penn St is going to get killed on civil suits coming down the road. And how much of that $60m is going to go the victims of this crime? I bet not one red cent.
Meanwhile, the Penn St football players have always and will continue to do what is expected of them academically, athletically and as far as we know, morally.

I don't see this as a culture of football first, I see this as a culture of men fearing Joe Paterno's wrath and Joe Paterno exercising horrible judgement in protecting a friend...and he lied about it when confronted with the truth.

Paterno if alive should have to face criminal charges, but killing the Penn St football program over this is the wrong message for the wrong reason.

[Jungle Rat]

Agreed. This shit started in 98 when the current roster was like 4-7 years old. Guess its their fault.

[eCat]

Agreed. This shit started in 98 when the current roster was like 4-7 years old. Guess its their fault.

even in '98 the football program was doing everything right.

In my mind I can separate the acts of an individual or individuals who didn't act on behalf of Penn St football but themselves from the program.

[eCat]

I actually think this is another nail in the coffin of the NCAA

At some point the SEC, Big 10, Big 12 and whoever else will be so financially incentivised that the cost of adhering to NCAA penalties will just push them to breaking away and forming their own league.

[Owlman]

Clearly I'm in the "not" category but I don't agree that we should have federal laws that allow a person to bring a gun into a bar or whatever.

Virtually every American believes in some gun control (The second Amendment actually doesn't use the word gun but instead uses "arms"). The real question is where the line should be drawn. At handguns or handheld surface-to-air missiles.

I wouldn't make a blanket statement like that. I think there is a significant number of people who see the second amendment going well beyond the concept of individual protection. And we've never had a more pro gun congress than we do now (over the last say 3 decades). That isn't due to the power of the NRA but the strong opinions voiced by individuals (and backed by the supreme court) about the right to own firearms in this country.

The second Amendment says arms. That would include cannons, tanks, all types of missiles. There may be some who believe that these should be available to everyone, but I stand by my statement that virtually all want some limits on this.

[eCat]

the idea being that the well armed citizenry would not face government oppression thru the military.

[sardis]

I don't own a gun. When I stopped hunting, I didnt have the need anymore to own one; however, I realize that it is a constitutional right and an important one, if not symbolic to what our country is about. Will there be casualties as apart of this freedom? Yes, just like there are casualties in a lot of other freedoms. Consumption of alcohol is a right. Does anyone here feel we should ban the consumption because there are many casualties that result? When this country tried to restrict consumption, did people stop drinking? Did the casualties go away because of prohibition? Many feel the violence increased just like it does now on our war on drugs.

What about our freedom to watch violent movies? Movies of fantasy? Surely, you could argue that the influence of this movie contributed to the deaths at the theatre. Should we restrict this media? How do you feel about the Patriot Act? Does it save lives? You can argue that it does, but at what cost? We literally have no privacy online anymore.

[Bklyn]

I still think we argue about this incorrectly, as if "freedom" translates into not exploring a more sensible way to deal with the ease of procuring weapons with a sole purpose of maximum killing power, and nothing more. If we really want to be honest, let's stop calling this about freedom. It's about capitalism. I love the AR-15, but there is no need for a civilian to have one. There is a need for the multiple manufacturers of the rifle to want the maximum amount of potential buyers, however.

So, I'll ask my question that I posed earlier, again: How many of these mass killings (Columbine, Tucson, Aurora, VA Tech I, VA Tech II, University of Texas?) were via illegally procured guns? Are we talking about keeping all criminals away from guns, or simply making it more difficult so our domestic gun violence rate gets somewhere close to the rest of the developed world?

[sardis]

Wouldn't the better question to ask is if certain guns were illegal would it have prevented the psycho from getting them?