Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Owlman]

We know Bachmann's view on all this; what's Romney's view?

[Owlman]

If there weren't students loans, pell grants, and other government money for needy students, then maybe Boston College would be $13,000/year instead of $54,000 a year?

If it were limited to the needy, then there wouldn't be much govt spending. Most govt money goes to middle class and upper middle class kids. Majority of students receive school loans, regardless of how much income the family makes annually.

[puterbac]

MFCEO.......

[puterbac]

[AugustWest]

I wonder what a catastrophe it would be if congress would just vote a 15% spending cut across the board and then let the various departments work out where the cuts would come from.

[Professor Tiger]

We know Bachmann's view on all this; what's Romney's view?

Romney is absolutely opposed to increasing any taxes in order to raise the debt ceiling. He also believes that we must raise taxes in order to raise the debt ceiling.

[Professor Tiger]

I wonder what a catastrophe it would be if congress would just vote a 15% spending cut across the board and then let the various departments work out where the cuts would come from.

I totally agree with that approach. I think they could simply pass a budget, with the same spending and taxation levels, from a previous year (I've heard 2008 suggested, but 2007 or 2006 would be okay too) which would balance the budget automatically. Then dare the Democrats to explain why, if Armageddon did not take place in that year, why it would in 2012.

If they say, "We need x hundred billion to fund increased medicare, medicaid, social security, food stamp, and other costs that have increased due to the recession," then say, "Fine. Deduct that x hundred billion from HHS, HUD, Department of Education, Bureau of this, Office of that, Department of whatever, etc.

[Owlman]

with the same spending and taxation levels, from a previous year (I've heard 2008 suggested, but 2007 or 2006 would be okay too) which would balance the budget automatically.

In all of those years, we were deficit spending so that it would not balance the budget. How about going back to a year that there was no deficit spending, as in 1999. Can't pay for everything? Then means test all loans, grants, payments, let states pay for their own highway projects, get rid of all corporate subsidies, markedly decrease our defense budget, get out of Germany, France, the Middle East, Bosnia, cut all payments to Israel etc.

[Professor Tiger]

Eliminate or dramatically cut the following federal agencies:

Administration for Children and Families (ACF)
Administration for Native Americans
Administration on Aging (AoA)
Administration on Developmental Disabilities
Administrative Committee of the Federal Register
Administrative Conference of the United States
Advisory Council on Historic Preservation
African Development Foundation
Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ)
Agency for International Development
Agricultural Marketing Service
Agricultural Research Service
Agriculture Department (USDA)
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives Bureau (Justice)
Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (Treasury)
American Battle Monuments Commission
AMTRAK (National Railroad Passenger Corporation)
Appalachian Regional Commission
Architect of the Capitol
Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (Access Board)
Arctic Research Commission
Armed Forces Retirement Home
Army Corps of Engineers
Arthritis and Musculoskeletal Interagency Coordinating Committee
Barry M. Goldwater Scholarship and Excellence in Education Foundation
Bonneville Power Administration
Botanic Garden
Broadcasting Board of Governors (Voice of America, Radio|TV Marti and more)
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (Justice)
Bureau of Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade (Treasury)
Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (DHS)
Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection
Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
Bureau of Engraving and Printing
Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA)
Bureau of Industry and Security (formerly the Bureau of Export Administration)
Bureau of International Labor Affairs
Bureau of Justice Statistics
Bureau of Labor Statistics
Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
Bureau of Prisons
Bureau of Public Debt
Bureau of Reclamation
Bureau of the Census
Bureau of Transportation Statistics
Capitol Visitor Center
Census Bureau
Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (formerly the Health Care Financing Administration)
Chief Acquisition Officers Council
Chief Financial Officers Council
Chief Human Capital Officers Council
Chief Information Officers Council
Citizens' Stamp Advisory Committee
Commerce Department
Commission of Fine Arts
Commission on Civil Rights
Commission on International Religious Freedom
Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (Helsinki Commission)
Committee for Purchase from People Who Are Blind or Severely Disabled
Committee for the Implementation of Textile Agreements
Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States
Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS)
Community Planning and Development
Comptroller of the Currency Office
Congress
Constitution Center
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC)
Coordinating Council on Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
Corporation for National and Community Service
Corps of Engineers
Council of Economic Advisers
Council on Environmental Quality
Court of International Trade
Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency for the District of Columbia
Defense Acquisition University
Defense Commissary Agency
Delaware River Basin Commission
Delaware State, County and City Websites
Denali Commission
Department of Agriculture (USDA)
Department of Commerce (DOC)
Department of Defense (DOD)
Department of Defense Inspector General
Department of Education (ED)
Department of Energy (DOE)
Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)
Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)
Department of Justice (DOJ)
Department of Labor (DOL)
Department of State (DOS)
Department of the Interior (DOI)
Department of the Treasury
Department of Transportation (DOT)
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
Economic, Business and Agricultural Affairs (State Department)
Economic Adjustment Office
Economic Analysis, Bureau of
Economic Development Administration
Economic Research Service
Economics & Statistics Administration
Education Department (ED)
Election Assistance Commission
Employee Benefits Security Administration (formerly Pension and Welfare Benefits Administration)
Employment and Training Administration (Labor Department)
Endangered Species Committee
Energy Department (DOE)
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy
Energy Information Administration
English Language Acquisition Office
Engraving and Printing, Bureau of
Environmental Management (Energy Department)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
European Command
Executive Office for Immigration Review
Export Administration (now the Bureau of Industry and Security)
Export-Import Bank of the United States
Office of Elementary and Secondary Education (OESE)
Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity
Farm Credit Administration
Farm Service Agency
Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
Federal Bureau of Prisons
Federal Citizen Information Center (FCIC)
Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
Federal Consulting Group
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)
Federal Election Commission
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
Federal Executive Boards
Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council
Federal Financing Bank
Federal Geographic Data Committee
Federal Highway Administration
Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight
Federal Housing Finance Board
Federal Interagency Committee for the Management of Noxious and Exotic Weeds
Federal Interagency Committee on Education
Federal Interagency Council on Statistical Policy
Federal Judicial Center
Federal Laboratory Consortium for Technology Transfer
Federal Labor Relations Authority
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center
Federal Library and Information Center Committee
Federal Maritime Commission
Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service
Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Federal Railroad Administration
Federal Reserve System
Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board
Federal Student Aid (FSA)
Federal Trade Commission (FTC)
Federal Transit Administration
Federated States of Micronesia Home Page
Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission
Financial Management Service (Treasury Department)
Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, National Commission
Fish and Wildlife Service
Food, Nutrition and Consumer Services
Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
Food and Nutrition Service
Foreign Agricultural Service
Foreign Claims Settlement Commission
Forest Service
Fossil Energy
Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board

[Professor Tiger]

General Services Administration (GSA)
Geological Survey (USGS)
Global Affairs (State Department)
Government Accountability Office (GAO)
Government National Mortgage Association
Government Printing Office (GPO)
Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration
Harry S. Truman Scholarship Foundation
Health and Human Services Department (HHS)
Health Resources and Services Administration
Helsinki Commission (Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe)
Holocaust Memorial Museum
Homeland Security Department (DHS)
House Leadership Offices
House Office of Inspector General
House Office of the Clerk
Housing and Urban Development Department (HUD)
Housing Office (HUD)
Idaho Home Page
Illinois and Michigan Canal National Heritage Corridor Commission
Indian Affairs, Bureau of
Indian Arts and Crafts Board
Indian Health Service
Industrial College of the Armed Forces
Industry and Security, Bureau of (formerly the Bureau of Export Administration)
Information Resource Management College
Innovation and Improvement Office
Institute of Education Sciences
Institute of Museum and Library Services
Institute of Peace
Interagency Alternative Dispute Resolution Working Group
Interagency Council on Homelessness
Inter-American Foundation
Interior Department
Internal Revenue Service (IRS)
International Broadcasting Bureau (IBB)
International Labor Affairs, Bureau of
International Trade Administration (ITA)
International Trade Commission
James Madison Memorial Fellowship Foundation
Japan-United States Friendship Commission
John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts
Joint Board for the Enrollment of Actuaries
Joint Chiefs of Staff
Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies
Joint Fire Science Program
Joint Forces Command
Joint Forces Staff College
Joint Military Intelligence College
Judicial Panel on Multidistrict Litigation
Justice Programs Office (Juvenile Justice, Victims of Crime, Violence Against Women and more)
Justice Statistics, Bureau of
Labor Department (DOL)
Labor Statistics, Bureau of
Land Management, Bureau of
Lead Hazard Control (Housing and Urban Development Department)
Legal Services Corporation
Library of Congress
Marine Mammal Commission
Maritime Administration
Marketing and Regulatory Programs (Agriculture Department)
Merit Systems Protection Board
Migratory Bird Conservation Commission
Military Postal Service Agency
Millennium Challenge Corporation
Minority Business Development Agency
Mint (Treasury Department)
Morris K. Udall Foundation: Scholarship and Excellence in National Environmental Policy
Multifamily Housing Office

[Professor Tiger]

National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)
National Agricultural Statistics Service
National AIDS Policy Office
National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare
National Capital Planning Commission
National Cemetery Administration (Veterans Affairs Department)
National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform
National Constitution Center
National Council on Disability
National Counterintelligence Executive, Office of
National Credit Union Administration
National Defense University
National Drug Intelligence Center
National Economic Council
National Endowment for the Arts
National Endowment for the Humanities
National Gallery of Art
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
National Indian Gaming Commission
National Institute of Food and Agriculture
National Institute of Justice
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
National Institutes of Health (NIH)
National Interagency Fire Center
National Laboratories (Energy Department)
National Labor Relations Board
National Marine Fisheries Service
National Mediation Board
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Ocean Service
National Park Foundation
National Park Service
National Railroad Passenger Corporation (AMTRAK)
National Reconnaissance Office
National Science Foundation
National Security Agency (NSA)
National Security Council
National Technical Information Service
National Telecommunications and Information Administration
National War College
National Weather Service (NOAA)
Natural Resources Conservation Service
Northern Command
Northwest Power Planning Council
Nuclear Energy, Science and Technology
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA)
Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission
Office of Compliance
Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight
Office of Government Ethics
Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP)
Office of Personnel Management
Office of Refugee Resettlement
Office of Science and Technology Policy
Office of Scientific and Technical Information
Office of Special Counsel
Office of Thrift Supervision
Open World Leadership Center
Overseas Private Investment Corporation
Pacific Command
Pardon Attorney Office
Parole Commission (Justice Department)
Patent and Trademark Office
Peace Corps
Pension and Welfare Benefits Administration (now the Employee Benefits Security Administration)
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
Pentagon Force Protection Agency
Policy Development and Research (Housing and Urban Development Department)
Political Affairs (State Department)
Postal Regulatory Commission
Postal Service (USPS)
Power Administrations
Presidio Trust
Prisoner of War/Missing Personnel Office
Public and Indian Housing
Public Debt, Bureau of
Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs (State Department)
Radio and TV Marti (Español)
Radio Free Asia (RFA)
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL)
Railroad Retirement Board
Reclamation, Bureau of
Refugee Resettlement
Regulatory Information Service Center
Rehabilitation Services Administration (Education Department)
Research, Education and Economics (Agriculture Department)
Research and Innovative Technology Administration (Transportation Department)
Risk Management Agency (Agriculture Department)
Rural Business and Cooperative Programs
Rural Development
Rural Housing Service
Rural Utilities Service
Saint Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation
Science Office (Energy Department)
Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)
Selective Service System
Small Business Administration (SBA)
Smithsonian Institution
Social Security Administration (SSA)
Social Security Advisory Board
Southeastern Power Administration
Southern Command
Southwestern Power Administration
State Justice Institute
Stennis Center for Public Service
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
Surface Mining, Reclamation and Enforcement
Surface Transportation Board
Susquehanna River Basin Commission
Tax Court
Taxpayer Advocacy Panel
Transportation Command
Transportation Department (DOT)
Transportation Security Administration
Transportation Statistics, Bureau of
Treasury Department
TRICARE Management
Trustee Program (Justice Department)
U.S. Capitol Visitor Center
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
U.S. International Trade Commission
U.S. Mint
U.S. Mission to the United Nations
U.S. National Central Bureau - Interpol (Justice Department)
U.S. Postal Service (USPS)
U.S. Sentencing Commission
U.S. Trade and Development Agency
U.S. Trade Representative
Unified Combatant Commands (Defense Department)
Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences
Vietnam Educational Foundation
Voice of America (VOA)
Veterans Day National Committee
Washington Headquarters Services
Weather Service, National
Western Area Power Administration
White House Commission on Presidential Scholars
White House Commission on the National Moment of Remembrance
Women's Bureau (Labor Department)
Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars

[puterbac]

[GBJs]

http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/art ... e-planning

A way to save an entire 112 billion over 10 years. The comments below the article are pretty good...everybody hates it.

[sardis]

with the same spending and taxation levels, from a previous year (I've heard 2008 suggested, but 2007 or 2006 would be okay too) which would balance the budget automatically.

In all of those years, we were deficit spending so that it would not balance the budget. How about going back to a year that there was no deficit spending, as in 1999. Can't pay for everything? Then means test all loans, grants, payments, let states pay for their own highway projects, get rid of all corporate subsidies, markedly decrease our defense budget, get out of Germany, France, the Middle East, Bosnia, cut all payments to Israel etc.

I'm ok with 1999. Spending was 18% of GDP that year. Isn't that what is being proposed?

[Professor Tiger]

Another advantage of picking 1999 as the template for future budgets is Clinton was still President then. It would be awkward for the Dem's to howl about a budget that was approved by one of their Presidents, and with spending levels that did not produce millions starving in the streets.

Similarly, it will be hard for the R's to howl about the economic devastation that will happen if we return to higher 1999 tax levels, because that did not happen. In fact, the opposite happened. The economy hummed along just fine.

[crashcourse]

I imagine most have not had any contact with 90% of those government agencies

the broken neck theory seemingly would have a fractured first vertebrae found with the skeletal remains you would think

[Owlman]

with the same spending and taxation levels, from a previous year (I've heard 2008 suggested, but 2007 or 2006 would be okay too) which would balance the budget automatically.

In all of those years, we were deficit spending so that it would not balance the budget. How about going back to a year that there was no deficit spending, as in 1999. Can't pay for everything? Then means test all loans, grants, payments, let states pay for their own highway projects, get rid of all corporate subsidies, markedly decrease our defense budget, get out of Germany, France, the Middle East, Bosnia, cut all payments to Israel etc.

I'm ok with 1999. Spending was 18% of GDP that year. Isn't that what is being proposed?

er, No. It would be easier to get the Dems to go along than it would the Republicans many who made die-hard pledges that they would not increase taxes. Since 1998, the defense budget has grown 3-fold. Going to 1999 levels would cause massive cuts across the board, including very big cuts in the defense budget.

What is being proposed is just some marginal cuts and no tax increases.

[Professor Tiger]

Since 1998, the defense budget has grown 3-fold.

Wildly incorrect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PerCa ... ending.PNG

But yes, going back to the 1999 budget would mean big cuts in the defense budget. Pulling 95% of our soldiers out of Iraq and Afghanistan would go a long way towards closing the gap.

[10ac]

Nukes are cheaper than troops.

[GBJs]

What is being proposed is just some marginal cuts and no tax increases.

Horse shit. What is being proposed is a reduction to the increases. Not a son of a bitch in Washington has said one damn word about an actual CUT in spending.

Fuck the increases. Cut SPENDING by 15% across the board. (.05 to Prof I think)