Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[sardis]

Heh @ "whatever pol."

No doubt the Yellowhammer State produces more Mercedes, Hondas, Toyotas, and Hyundais as a group than any other comparable land mass anywhere on the globe. Shelby has been described in some circles as a foreign corporate agent moonlighting as a US Senator. You gotta say the man had chutzpa for taking on the role of point man for trying to effectively gut the Detroit automakers.

Anyway. In my naiv-i-TAY, I thought a US automaker leading the way in sales for the first time this century over Japan and the rest of the world was a pretty good thing. Obviously others don't see it that way.

sushi lovers, the lot of them... even on the Fourth

It was, until you expounded...

[Professor Tiger]

Anyway. In my naiv-i-TAY, I thought a US automaker leading the way in sales for the first time this century over Japan and the rest of the world was a pretty good thing. Obviously others don't see it that way.

LMAO! Post of the week, if not the month. The obvious reason PNNery takes "a US automaker leading the way in sales for the first time this century over Japan and the rest of the world" as bad news is they are desperately afraid that Obama might get a tiny morsel of credit for it. Just like puter goes to absurd lengths and logical contortions to argue that Clinton should get no credit whatsoever for the budget surplus that happened under his watch. PNN will never admit to the old adage that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Big Orange Junky]

It's not a bad thing perse. It would be much better if they were leading legitimately with no gubment interfearance and without the free advertising they got. Last time I checked Ford was an American company, and there is nothing in the constitution allowing the gubment to STEAL money from the taxpayer to prop up a supposedly private business and give them a leg up over their competition (Ford). No I don't own a Ford.

Tic I am speaking specifically about all the slurping GM got for playing like good boys and going along and taking the money. All the acclaim about the "volt" and Oprama mentioning them so much in his speaches etc. You heard a ton about GM in the MSM for a long time. Over and over and over again GM was on the morning "feel good" stories and they were being patted on the back about something almost all the time. It all went back to the bailout, because it was Opramas baby the MSM slobbered all over that knob to help prop it up in the minds of the American sheeple.

As for me thinking it was a bad thing? No, but I would have liked it alot better if it were Ford since they didn't cowtow and take the money.

Even my favorite vehicle manufacturer, Dodge was involved (I own a Dodge truck and love it). Prolly won't buy another one from them and I know I won't buy one from Gubment Motors.

[AlabamAlum]

I said Shelby because I skimmed the posts. Shelby, Sessions, whatever.

Sales are great. I'm happy for them. And they're not bleeding cash like they were - so they could be doing worse. Are they well-managed, though? Do gross sales tell you about controlling costs and producing a reasonable return to investors? No, sales alone does not good management make. Show me a company's EBITDA and I can better make that call. GM's is disappointing. I hope their high sales holds out because volume helps disguise a multitude of management sins.

Anyway, GM gets a bailout, sells a couple of high dollar holdings and still has a poor ROI?

As far as the "fur'en" carmakers in Alabama, I'm okay with it (or any state). They build factories here and employee US workers.

[bluetick]

Slurpers and slobberers. Gubment interferancers. And (top) sales doesn't make for good management. ::::shakes head::::

I'm going to put the following items in a column I'd like to refer to as Good Things:

• GM ("As goes GM goes the nation.") avoids bankruptcy and/or breakup
  250,000 direct jobs are saved, as are 2,000,000 indirect jobs
  GM is on pace to pay back the loan with interest, as Chrysler has already done
  GM has added over 53,000 jobs since July of 2009
  The number one selling auto in June was an American car - the Chevy Cruz

[Professor Tiger]

This is horrible news for Motown and the nation, and it's all Obama's fault.

[AlabamAlum]

No, top sales does NOT mean good overall financial management. Are you pulling my leg? Are you not in business?

I'll give you an over the top example:

You own a company that sells widgets. You hire me as CEO and go off to the Amazon for a year long mission trip. Upon your return you find out that I've sold more more widgets than the previous high sales widget company (Acme). In fact, widgets are flying off the shelves to the tune of $100 million dollars a year. When you ask about EBITA, I tell you that we're in the red. That my payroll and production costs are so outta line that we're losing money.

Are you happy as an owner or an investor? Am I a good manager? Do you see how high sales =\= sound overall management of a company?

Back to GM: congrats to them. I'm glad the bailout $$ weren't wasted. I'm glad that they sold off a couple of subsidiaries to return some cash to their investors. Overall, however, they have a smaller % ROI than what they should have for those sales. You must blame poor (or at least, 'less than optimal') financial management for the lackluster results. And the fact that they outsold the Japs is partly because the tsunami wreaked havoc with their supply and logistics - and those issues have not been resolved yet.

If GM can control some of their operating costs, they could be a great financial story. As they sit now? They are above water re: bottom line and that's a start, but let's stop short of handing them the Noble Prize for Econ.

[bluetick]

Says here the Dow was up 53 points today

son of a

bitch..

[AlabamAlum]

Says here the Dow was up 53 points today

son of a

bitch..

Did you liquidate? Historically, that's not a good idea.

[10ac]

I think he is saying that stifling debt is good for the DOW and good for America.

[GBJs]

6. Make the border with Mexico impregnable, then give amnesty to the non-criminal illegals already here.

No to the amnesty. There is no such thing as a "non-criminal" illegal. Come over legally, get your ass on a tax roll like the rest of us, and become a naturalized US citizen.

As far as the "fur'en" carmakers in Alabama, I'm okay with it (or any state). They build factories here and employee US workers.

Define "American" automaker in present day. I'd be willing to wager at least a cold Dr. Pepper on the percentage of "American" make-up in a Honda Accord or Civic versus a Chevy Cruz.

[AlabamAlum]

I agree with the automakers; however, with the illegals, you can give amnesty or not, but we'll never be able to deport the 15 million illegals already here.

[Owlman]

I am speaking specifically about all the slurping GM got for playing like good boys and going along and taking the money.

Shame on GM. Why didn't they just do the right thing, refuse the money, go out of business and put even more massive numbers of people in the country out of work. Selfish bastages.

[Owlman]

Anyway. In my naiv-i-TAY, I thought a US automaker leading the way in sales for the first time this century over Japan and the rest of the world was a pretty good thing. Obviously others don't see it that way.

Of course not. That would mean that some credit would have to be given to the Dems.

Bush, McConnell and Boehner were big borrowers and spenders. Obama, Pelosi and Reed were bigger borrowers, bigger taxers and catastrophic spenders.

what taxes did Obama increase? Aren't taxes currently lower under Obama?

As for getting rid of the PPACA, (otherwise called by some Obamacare, previously called Romney Plan, and before that the 1994 Republican Health care plan), according to the CBO, PPACA will decrease the cost of government compared to what was present before it was passed. Of course, people tend to accept use the CBO when it supports what they want, but totally ignore it when it doesn't. They aren't perfect, wrong often, but probably is the best way to evaluate future costs as opposed to demogogery.

[AlabamAlum]

Of course not. That would mean that some credit would have to be given to the Dems.

I am not a demagogue; I hate both repups and dems. In fact, other than the campaign rhetoric, I find both groups pretty much indistinguishable. That said, while the GM bailout was probably the right thing to do, I couldn't care less about who gets the credit. Further, let's not kid ourselves into thinking that GM is well run. GMs operating costs are outta line with the Japs, and Ford for that matter. The good thing for GM was that Japan is a smoldering pile of nuclear waste right now.

Investors less impressed
Despite the strong results and guidance, shares of GM were down more then 2% in morning trading. The stock had run-up sharply in recent days on hopes that GM would top forecasts by an even greater amount.

Adam Jonas, analyst with Morgan Stanley, described the results out of North America as "disappointing," given the stronger than expected sales and pricing of vehicles in GM's home market.

Shares of GM are once again below the $33 price of the company's initial public offering last November. That's significant for taxpayers as the Treasury Department weighs selling its remaining shares in the company to recoup the money used to bail out GM.

Treasury still owns about one-third of GM shares, and the price would have to rise by more than 60% from current levels for taxpayers to get back all of the money spent on the bailout.

Excluding the special items, GM posted only a modest improvement in income from North America and trimmed losses in Europe. It said it expects its European operations to finally break even this year.

But profits fell in its South American unit as well as its International Operations unit, which includes operations elsewhere around the globe.

Still, the company reported sales gains in every region, as it picked up market share everywhere except South America during the period. Its biggest gain came in China, where sales outpaced GM's U.S. sales for the fifth-straight quarter.

"We believe we are well positioned to take advantage of global industry growth," said Akerson.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/05/news/co ... /index.htm

[Professor Tiger]

Ihowever, with the illegals, you can give amnesty or not, but we'll never be able to deport the 15 million illegals already here.

Exactly.

[Professor Tiger]

Of course not. That would mean that some credit would have to be given to the Dems.

I already said that, more eloquently, 15 posts ago. Pay attention, owlman.

[sardis]

So the govt is still short $10B? If tick is right with his employment numbers, we spent $80K for each employee...

Absolutely brilliant...

[sardis]

Obama/Biden < Clinton/Gore.

It's not really even close.

Anyway, as we all know, the president gets too much credit when things are good and takes too much heat when things are bad.

What I'd like to see from Obama.

1. Drop the Patriot Act like it was hot.

2. Get out of wars in countries that will hate us no matter what - unless we get oil, influence or land/bases as a result of our involvement.

3. Get control of the border with Mexico by drying up jobs for illegals by putting teeth to the penalties for hiring illegals.

4. Raise taxes, but agree to cut spending and waste. I would actually like to see a 1:1 spending cut to tax raise. For example, raise taxes by 600 billion, cut spending by 600 billion (etc). Would that be painful? Sure. But we spent 3.5 trillion last year- which is 500 billion more than we spent in 2008.

5. Tie corporate tax breaks to their employment of full-time employees. Give a % of the salary for each FTE added in the previous year. For example, a company with 215 FTEs in 2010, that goes to 300 FTEs in 2011, added 85 employees. If those employees have an average salary of $40k, give that company a $2000 tax break (5%) x those 85 employees, or a 170k tax
break. Put caps on it as needed (we've had programs like this before and they've been successful). This will not reward companies who eliminate jobs or sends those jobs overseas.

I don't see how you can raIse taxes $600B. Going back to Clinton rates only raises $200B. How are you going to raise another $400B?
.
You have to cut at least $800B of spending

[puterbac]

DRIVER'S SEAT on msnbc.com
by Paul Eisenstein 7/6/2011

For the first time in years, a U.S. automaker has topped the passenger car sales charts.

Chevrolet's new compact Cruze was the best-selling car in the United States in June, new sales data show, cruising past perennial chart-toppers like the Toyota Camry and Honda Civic.


flashback to comments made about the GM and Chrysler bailout made in Dec 2008:
"Their business model is a disaster and their decisions are terrible," said Sen. Richard Shelby, R-AL. "It is unrealistic to think that companies who have failed to make tough choices over decades will get their act together now that they have received a downpayment from taxpayers."

How much of that is related to the earthquake and tsunami affecting supply of parts etc from Japan for Toyota and Honda?