The Goat Pen

So was Iraq and frankly our face aint worth that much any more.

this is about AIPAC pushing paid for congressmen to go to war when the polling is telling them that US citizens are against it to about a 9:1 ratio

67% of Israelis want the US to fire missiles at Syria, yet 77% don't want Israel to fire any missiles. Now, I am very pro-Israel and believe Israel should be able to keep the territory it received in 1967 and should defend them if attacked; however, if they arent willing to bomb Syria then there ain't no way we should do it for them.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Poll ... ion-324787

AugustWest wrote:So was Iraq and frankly our face aint worth that much any more.

Iraq was not about saving face...at all. That was a mixture of Daddy Issues, Oil and Neocon academic papers being brought to life. It wasn't much about saving face.

Saving the face of who?

Bklyn wrote:

AugustWest wrote:So was Iraq and frankly our face aint worth that much any more.

Iraq was not about saving face...at all. That was a mixture of Daddy Issues, Oil and Neocon academic papers being brought to life. It wasn't much about saving face.

Take your points one step furthur and they become saving face. Particularly the Daddy issues. Iraq was all about Saddam threatening Bush 1 and Bush 2 finishing the job Bush 1 started. Not that I had a problem with taking out Saddam, I just think we really fucked up the aftermath.

sardis wrote:67% of Israelis want the US to fire missiles at Syria, yet 77% don't want Israel to fire any missiles. Now, I am very pro-Israel and believe Israel should be able to keep the territory it received in 1967 and should defend them if attacked; however, if they arent willing to bomb Syria then there ain't no way we should do it for them.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Poll ... ion-324787

I"m not pro Israel, but I'm not anti- Israel either, but this highlights the biggest problem I have - Americans should not die or fund a fucking piece of soil in the middle east. Either Israel stands or falls but they do it on their own.

Take out the religious connection to that land and look at it objectively and you just shake your head at how much our of lives - every American - has been affected by our continued unconditional support of that nation - from American deaths to the American economy.

There is only 1 reason why congress is attempting to push forward a strike against Syria. Its because Israel wants us to, and that's a veiled attempt to go for the bigger prize - American taking down Iran.

This has nothing to do with saving face for Obama, or America, or embolding future dictators to cross a line.

Israel provides a non-muslim thorn square in the broad side of the middle east. Its a nice check to avoid hegemony in the region; supporting them is a strategic play under Obama now - just as it was under Ike more than half a century ago.

Look, its not as if we actually care about the lox-eating yarmulke-wearing Jesus-deniers. They serve a purpose. Nothing more.

Israel is doomed anyway. The jews in Israel are being out-bred 3 to one by muslims in their own country. They either become a oligarchy they claim to despise or give control to muslims in twenty years anyway. This is a no win situation for them.

It's not just Israel, it's the oil rich arab sheiks who have offered money to carry out the strikes. They don't like Assad for some reason and want him gone. I bet if you polled religious folk in this country, most will not be for the strike.

I disagree with eCat about congress. They want nothing to do with this. The handful of pro strike congressmen are trying to use their clout to strong arm the rest. I don't think it will work this time, at least I hope it doesn't.

It's the Saudis. Those fuckers are the biggest supporters of terrorism in the region yet we follow them more blindly that we do the Israelis. Iran is closer to a western style democracy than Saudi Arabia is.

Israel has nothing to do with this. Why should they join?

Damn. That was pretty stupid even for you.

They don't. Just the same as Turkey doesn't Saudi Arabia doesn't & Mexico doesn't. Not their red line.

wtf are you talking about? That statement is almost as stupid as U*NC claiming to run a clean athletic program.

Anyway, I'm staying away...

Seems my protestations about corporate cash in politics is misplaced...

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/bu ... tw-nytimes&

AlabamAlum wrote:Israel provides a non-muslim thorn square in the broad side of the middle east. Its a nice check to avoid hegemony in the region; supporting them is a strategic play under Obama now - just as it was under Ike more than half a century ago.

Look, its not as if we actually care about the lox-eating yarmulke-wearing Jesus-deniers. They serve a purpose. Nothing more.

why should we care? we'd have a very simple relationship with the middle east without Israel. We'd pull up a boatload of money and in return we'd get a boatload of oil. End of day.

We have this idea that because they are a democracy (that just happens to invoke something worse than apartheid on about 1.5 million people) that they are this beacon of American idealism in the middle east but its meaningless to us and its a one sided relationship.

And to think Israel was almost established in Africa. How different things would be if that would have gone through...

Bklyn wrote:And to think Israel was almost established in Africa. How different things would be if that would have gone through...

we'd be hearing how Somali Pirates are a threat to our national security

The U.S. has intercepted an order from Iran to militants in Iraq to attack the U.S. Embassy and other American interests in Baghdad in the event of a strike on Syria, officials said, amid an expanding array of reprisal threats across the region.

Military officials have been trying to predict the range of possible responses from Syria, Iran and their allies. U.S. officials said they are on alert for Iran's fleet of small, fast boats in the Persian Gulf, where American warships are positioned. U.S. officials also fear Hezbollah could attack the U.S. Embassy in Beirut.

While the U.S. has moved military resources in the region for a possible strike, it has other assets in the area that would be ready to respond to any reprisals by Syria, Iran or its allies.

and there it is. Israel's fait accompli