The Goat Pen

Bklyn wrote:Breaking my vow for this time...

aTm wrote:I have little doubt that if Martin had bashed in Zimmermans head instead, he would have faced charges too.

The thing is the Zimmerman case never would gone this far, and no charges would have been faced by GZ, if not for those "rabble rousers" (i.e. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson) that constantly take flak on here (to an extent) and elsewhere by certain concerned citizens. So while you have little doubt Martin would have faced charges, I have total confidence that this case would not have reached to the level of charges against GZ if not for the outcry of outside forces due to the initial classification of "justifiable" that was brought by the Sanford PD.

Disagree. I doubt seriously that if Martin had killed Zimmerman by bashing his head in that he would not have been charged with at least manslaughter, in fact, it's the classic application of manslaughter.

Actually, I think you agree with both of us.

aTm is saying (if I read right) that if Martin had bashed in GZ's head he would have faced charges.

I'm saying that I agree Martin would have faced charges, however GZ would NOT have faced charges if the Sharptons of the world didn't come to Sanford and protest that there was no arrest. The police had decided, until then, that there was no need to arrest and that the shooting was justified due to SYG.

Bklyn wrote:Actually, I think you agree with both of us.

aTm is saying (if I read right) that if Martin had bashed in GZ's head he would have faced charges.

I'm saying that I agree Martin would have faced charges, however GZ would NOT have faced charges if the Sharptons of the world didn't come to Sanford and protest that there was no arrest. The police had decided, until then, that there was no need to arrest and that the shooting was justified due to SYG.

which was validated by the state failing to prove their case to a jury of women.

Ha.

Also, unless I am mistaken (typical) for all the talk about "Stand Your Ground" once the testimony is out there, this is a classic Self Defense case, not Stand Your Ground. I think a Stand Your Ground case in a situation where Zimmerman shot an unarmed kid after pursuing him instead of retreating would have been much, much harder for him to get acquitted by the jury. The fact that the testimony showed there was a situation where Zimmerman and Martin were in a fight and that he was shot from only inches away pretty much threw out that this was Stand Your Ground. I think he goes straight to prison without passing Go or collecting his $200 if he shoots the kid before he got in a fight with him.

Gotta agree with Brook. No charges would have/should have even been filed without the race card being played by Al & his boys. Total waste of time, money & emotion.

The police were assuming SYG. As it turns out, SYG was much more problematic for Zimmerman (iow, the police assumption was probably wrong).

In the civil trial (I don't see grounds for a federal civil rights violation and while they'll look at it, I doubt they file charge him for it), Zimmerman will have to testify and then they'll impeach him on some of his earlier testimony.

Yawn

aTm wrote:Ha.

Also, unless I am mistaken (typical) for all the talk about "Stand Your Ground" once the testimony is out there, this is a classic Self Defense case, not Stand Your Ground. I think a Stand Your Ground case in a situation where Zimmerman shot an unarmed kid after pursuing him instead of retreating would have been much, much harder for him to get acquitted by the jury. The fact that the testimony showed there was a situation where Zimmerman and Martin were in a fight and that he was shot from only inches away pretty much threw out that this was Stand Your Ground. I think he goes straight to prison without passing Go or collecting his $200 if he shoots the kid before he got in a fight with him.

yea, and he should go to prison for shooting Trayvon in any other situation other than self defense.

Arm your children. Don't answer anything if asked except if it is an officer of the court (then be polite as possible). Anybody else, shoot first, make sure they are dead.

Owlman wrote:Arm your children. Don't answer anything if asked except if it is an officer of the court (then be polite as possible). Anybody else, shoot first, make sure they are dead.

you might want to tell them about the neighborhood watch program as well.

-------------------------

RACHEL JEANTEL, FRIEND OF TRAYVON: Well, the jury, they see their facts. My thoughts of the jury, they old, that's old school people. We in a new school, our generation, my generation. So --

PIERS MORGAN: Let's talk about 'creepy ass cracka.' People have said that that is a phrase used by black people, cracka, to describe a white person. Is that true?

JEANTEL: No! Like I said --

MORGAN: How do you spell it, first of all?

JEANTEL: Cracka.

MORGAN: There's no 'e-r,' right?

JEANTEL: No, it's an 'a' at the end.

MORGAN: C-r-a-c-k-a.

JEANTEL: Yeah. And that's a person who act like they're a police [officer], who, like a security guard who acting like -- that's what I said to them. Trayvon said creepy ass cracka.

MORGAN: It means he thought it was a police or a security guard?

JEANTEL: Yeah, he acting like the police. And then he keep telling me that the man is still watching him. So, if it was a security guard or a policeman, they would come up to Trayvon and say, 'Do you have a problem? Do you need help?' You know, like normal people.

-------------------------------------
“Trayvon say ‘why are you following me’ and then this man, oh my god, saying ‘what you doing around here’. That was the last time we talked. It still feels awkward to me, like wow, that really happened because I never saw it coming. I’m just in shock right now,” explained Jeantel.
--------------------------------------
People need to understand, he didn't want that creepy ass cracka going to his father or girlfriend's house to go get -- mind you, his little brother is there. Mind you I told you, I told Trayvon, [Zimmerman] might have been a rapist."

Jungle Rat wrote:Gotta agree with Brook. No charges would have/should have even been filed without the race card being played by Al & his boys. Total waste of time, money & emotion.

That's not what I was saying.

It was interesting hearing the juror last night and her perspective of what went through the mind of George Zimmerman, whether it was racial or not. Then it dawned on me that I had a similar situation a few summers ago. We do not have a neighborhood watch, but our HOA pays for extra police enforcement in our neighborhood (which doesn't really help). It is an upper middle class neighborhood with no gate. My lot backs to about 100 acres of woods, not owned by me. The only way to access these woods from our neighborhood is to go through a howmeowners property. Since I am in a quiet cul-de-sac some older white punk ass teens who live in our neighborhood determined my lot was the preferred access to the woods. I was a little concerned, but hey, I wasn't going to be an old coot, and besides, I didn't want to be a hypocrite since my kids played back in those woods, not owned by me, as well.

After a while you could hear some commotion out in the woods, even a gun shot fired at night one time. My neighbor, who is black, started getting concerned and called the police. The officer came and interviewed us and said they'll work on it. Well, the kids kept coming. Meanwhile I started to notice things missing in my garage, nothing really valuable, but annoying. They actually started to come by golf cart parking it in the cul-de-sac (the neighborhood has a golf course). Then one Saturday, my neighbor called me and said he saw the kids hanging out by my garage area at 4am the night before smoking something. The garage is the opposite side of our master bedroom but closer to his so he heard it and not me. Well, that was it for me. Now, a middle aged man's thinking on this is to put an end to this somehow without appearing like a narc and this is a 500 home neighborhood and I had no idea who their parents were. That's when the machismo thinking starts to kick in, especially after just watching Gran Torino not too long before. The next Friday night the cart pulls up with about 4 guys and one girl and I come out with my pick ax (I don't own a gun) and told them that they are trespassing on private property and they are to leave and not come back again. If they did I had the right to defend my property (probably not really true, but don't think any of these kids are legal scholars). I got a few snickers and smirks which elevated my angst toward them, and I said if that cart is not gone in 60 seconds I am taking the pick ax to it. The girl started urging the group to "let's go" probably because I think it was her dad's cart. One of those teens could have escalated the situation, but none did. Which looking back I am glad since I didn't really plan for that. In hindsight I would not have done that again. I could have gotten myself in some trouble.

"That's when the machismo thinking starts to kick in, especially after just watching Gran Torino not too long before."

LMAO...

sardis wrote:It was interesting hearing the juror last night and her perspective of what went through the mind of George Zimmerman, whether it was racial or not. Then it dawned on me that I had a similar situation a few summers ago. We do not have a neighborhood watch, but our HOA pays for extra police enforcement in our neighborhood (which doesn't really help). It is an upper middle class neighborhood with no gate. My lot backs to about 100 acres of woods, not owned by me. The only way to access these woods from our neighborhood is to go through a howmeowners property. Since I am in a quiet cul-de-sac some older white punk ass teens who live in our neighborhood determined my lot was the preferred access to the woods. I was a little concerned, but hey, I wasn't going to be an old coot, and besides, I didn't want to be a hypocrite since my kids played back in those woods, not owned by me, as well.

After a while you could hear some commotion out in the woods, even a gun shot fired at night one time. My neighbor, who is black, started getting concerned and called the police. The officer came and interviewed us and said they'll work on it. Well, the kids kept coming. Meanwhile I started to notice things missing in my garage, nothing really valuable, but annoying. They actually started to come by golf cart parking it in the cul-de-sac (the neighborhood has a golf course). Then one Saturday, my neighbor called me and said he saw the kids hanging out by my garage area at 4am the night before smoking something. The garage is the opposite side of our master bedroom but closer to his so he heard it and not me. Well, that was it for me. Now, a middle aged man's thinking on this is to put an end to this somehow without appearing like a narc and this is a 500 home neighborhood and I had no idea who their parents were. That's when the machismo thinking starts to kick in, especially after just watching Gran Torino not too long before. The next Friday night the cart pulls up with about 4 guys and one girl and I come out with my pick ax (I don't own a gun) and told them that they are trespassing on private property and they are to leave and not come back again. If they did I had the right to defend my property (probably not really true, but don't think any of these kids are legal scholars). I got a few snickers and smirks which elevated my angst toward them, and I said if that cart is not gone in 60 seconds I am taking the pick ax to it. The girl started urging the group to "let's go" probably because I think it was her dad's cart. One of those teens could have escalated the situation, but none did. Which looking back I am glad since I didn't really plan for that. In hindsight I would not have done that again. I could have gotten myself in some trouble.

I think we've all been there at one time - In your case, those teens recognized that escalating the situation with you might have led to violence and they opted to cooperate. And for the most part I think most people in all age groups realize that nothing good is going to come from a teenager escalating a situation with an adult. Whether its a respect your elders kind or thing or the guy is crazy, its a move on situation.

sardis, for future reference, the goat pen approved method for dealing with trespassing teens is to dig pit traps.

yea you should have come to me.

http://blog.chron.com/celebritybuzz/201 ... cmpid=hpbn

Stevie Wonder boycotts states with Stand Your Ground, I guess because Stand Your Ground was talked about on the news, since it had nothing to do with the actual Martin/Zimmerman case.

I think it would be extremely effective if Stevie would boycott all states that allow a Self Defense argument.

aTm wrote:sardis, for future reference, the goat pen approved method for dealing with trespassing teens is to dig pit traps.

I must have missed that day.

Even though I slightly question the inneficiencies, it does make sense.

I thought that was a Jew trap?