The Goat Pen

U.S. Constitution:

Article I: Section 8: Clause I: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

Unemployment rate? Unemployment claims?

Unemployment rate is not month to month but related to multiples of what was going on previously. The same for unemployment claims. Both are cumulative measures.

Count the lies......and watch the polls rise.


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Owlman wrote:

Unemployment rate? Unemployment claims?

Unemployment rate is not month to month but related to multiples of what was going on previously. The same for unemployment claims. Both are cumulative measures.

Okay, I'm waiting....

Trust me I have no love for either side in this. I am just looking for cold hard numbers / facts.

sardis wrote:"The Great Recession (2007) - George W. Bush (Republican) - Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act of 1932 and Deregulation of the Financial Industry leading to the creation and bursting of the real estate bubble and collapse of the financial industry."

Since you are trying to give a history lesson, you may want to fact check on which President signed this.

Also, what's up with hedge and his Tea Party talk?

I was listing the President under which the collapse occured, but yes, Clinton signed GLBA, which was authored by Phil Gramm (R-TX), James Leach (R-IA) and Tom Bliley (R-VA), which repealed sections 20 and 32 of Glass-Steagal.

It was authored by Republicans, but the repeal was, by all definitions, bipartisan: Senate Democrats voted for it by a tally of 38-7 and House Democrats voted yea by a tally of 155-51 - and as previously mentioned, Clinton signed.

which includes making sure we don't mirror the economy of Greece.

LMAO! That's like the owner of a whorehouse suddenly becoming a big supporter of chastity. The Obama administration has run up such a mind-numbing deficit, and promises even more, that he has already turned America into another budding Greece (except without the great food and ancient culture). We're already almost there. Do you really think The Great Greek-ificator and his party will suddenly start become fiscally responsible in his second term? Please be serious.

Professor Tiger wrote:

which includes making sure we don't mirror the economy of Greece.

LMAO! That's like the owner of a whorehouse suddenly becoming a big supporter of chastity. The Obama administration has run up such a mind-numbing deficit, and promises even more, that he has already turned America into another budding Greece (except without the great food and ancient culture). We're already almost there. Do you really think The Great Greek-ificator and his party will suddenly start become fiscally responsible in his second term? Please be serious.

Given that "The Great Greek-ificator" came in during the worst economic meltdown in 80 years and the 2nd worst in the history of America, spending was his only option. Pretty much the ONLY proven method to end a Depression is to raise government spending. In fact, the Recession of 1937 was caused precisely because FDR caved to the GOP and cut spending. It was massive government spending that cut the unemployment rate from 25% in 1933 to under 10% in 1937.

Some economists posit that the reason the recovery has been so slow under Obama is because there hasn't been ENOUGH spending. In the same vein, there should be a HUGE cut in taxes for the middle class . . . funded by a huge tax increase on the top 2% of earners. Why?

1 - the top 2% aren't in a recession - it's a boom time for them, and
2 - the top 2% are generally hoarder/savers, while the middle class are spenders, so the economy heats up much quicker with spending/circulating money.

Keynesian economics: decrease taxes, increase spending in downturn
increase taxes, decrease spending when things are going great
increase taxes in wartime
decrease taxes at end of war
maintain investment in all phases of research

Johnette's Daddy wrote:

sardis wrote:"The Great Recession (2007) - George W. Bush (Republican) - Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act of 1932 and Deregulation of the Financial Industry leading to the creation and bursting of the real estate bubble and collapse of the financial industry."

Since you are trying to give a history lesson, you may want to fact check on which President signed this.

Also, what's up with hedge and his Tea Party talk?

I was listing the President under which the collapse occured, but yes, Clinton signed GLBA, which was authored by Phil Gramm (R-TX), James Leach (R-IA) and Tom Bliley (R-VA), which repealed sections 20 and 32 of Glass-Steagal.

Then why do we call this the Bush recession?

The reason why Keynesian economics is now flawed, compared to 1930's, is because of entitlements. Entitlement spending does not decrease during good times; therefore, you are constantly ramping up deficits instead of stabilizing them over time. The problem with Europe is that they don't have the capacity to pump any more. Why? Because entitlements seemed to grow when times were good, rather than decreased. We are heading the same direction.

sardis wrote:The reason why Keynesian economics is now flawed, compared to 1930's, is because of entitlements. Entitlement spending does not decrease during good times; therefore, you are constantly ramping up deficits instead of stabilizing them over time. The problem with Europe is that they don't have the capacity to pump any more. Why? Because entitlements seemed to grow when times were good, rather than decreased. We are heading the same direction.

Except, of course, for the MASSIVE surpluses under Clinton. The reasons we didn't continue to ride the surplus wave under W were:

1 - his unbudgeted wars
2 - his tax cuts for the rich.

Meanwhile, Ronald Reagan had 8 straight defecits and not a peep about the fiscally imprudent St. Reagan.

hedge wrote:"Yep, have to agree with Hedge on this part besides it's the PREAMBLE to the Constitution but that hasn't stopped liberals from citing it to justify their welfare programs."

In fairness (I realize that's a foreign concept around here), J's Daddy was not citing that "promote the general welfare" as a justification of welfare programs, he seemed to be citing it as a justification for federal activity/intervention in the overall economy. Fair-minded people can disagree about that, but it's certainly not fair to imply that he was citing that passage as a justification of welfare. FWIW, I haven't seen anyone else doing that, either...

True, I didn't say he did but I have many liberal friends and I have heard that used for federal welfare programs over and over and over again that's what I was meaning when I said it hasn't stopped them from using it.

sardis wrote:Then why do we call this the Bush recession?

How about the Cheney recession?

sardis wrote:"The Great Recession (2007) - George W. Bush (Republican) - Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act of 1932 and Deregulation of the Financial Industry leading to the creation and bursting of the real estate bubble and collapse of the financial industry."

Since you are trying to give a history lesson, you may want to fact check on which President signed this.

Also, what's up with hedge and his Tea Party talk?

This is what Bill Clinton said about it...

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index ... z1X8ndgy5Z

10ac wrote:I'm voting for whomever promises to kill the most arabs.

What about Persians and Egyptians?

"True, I didn't say he did but I have many liberal friends"

It is difficult for me to imagine that you have any friends, liberal or otherwise, much less "many" friends...

Johnette's Daddy wrote:1 - his unbudgeted wars.
2 - his tax cuts for the rich.

Are you talking about Bush, or about Obama?

Op Ed wrote:

10ac wrote:I'm voting for whomever promises to kill the most arabs.

What about Persians and Egyptians?

If it quacks like a duck...

hedge wrote:"True, I didn't say he did but I have many liberal friends"

It is difficult for me to imagine that you have any friends, liberal or otherwise, much less "many" friends...

Just cause you don't like good folks don't mean everybody else doesn't.