The Goat Pen

is DS advocating the destruction of a brewery? for all his faults I have a difficult time believing this. surely I'm misreading.

AlabamAlum wrote:

Probably true. Enjoy it while it lasts, which won't be much longer. You're about to lose a boatload of players to the NFL.

What I'm about to say sounds like hubris. So be it: we'll lose some folks. But meh. Were at the point in the Saban process where losing talent doesn't really matter. We just reload. We lost four 1st round draft picks before this season. Well lose a couple this year. We'll still be very, very good.

Beat me to it...'course I been a little busy the last couple of days.

Four first rounders, the loss to injury of a true freshman RB who would have probably been third in rotation to spell TR and Lacy. Of course Jalston has done a very good job. Also, the offensive line...the untimely death of Aaron Douglas before the season. Our depth took a hit with the injury of CK and AK.

Notice none of these guys are starters, or seniors.

Trent will leave early. I'd expect Hightower to do the same, and Barron is a senior along with Uphsaw. Vlachos and one other O lineman is a senior, along with Josh Chapman on the D line.

I'd say we're in pretty good shape.

So are ya sayin' that Chiz is taking the Nutt route via JC players?

I, for one, am happy I recorded this season's Alabama V Penn State game on DVD.

I'd like to find that tall tree and short rope for the bastard who hurt those children. Of all the bull shit to take one of the outwardly best men college football has ever known out of the game, well, I'm not even sure he deserves a new rope.

But I must say I haven't read the indictment or the first article on this and I haven't seen any news reports until tonight on ESPN. All I know is what I've seen posted on a few other sites like Woolly, and what ESPN has said. I don't know what evidence there is or isn't and I'm just going on what people say they believe about it and that boils down to Paterno knew enough that he should have done something and that he had the power to get something done.

To flip this around, I'd probably be very slightly more defensive of Saban if UA was involved in this than I am of Paterno, but that's not very much at all. I'd be praying my a-- off that Saban would be found to have played no role in a coverup or even a passive role by turning a blind eye. I hope that ends up being the case for JoePa. But that's where my defense of him, if you can call it that, ends.

This whole situation sickens me to the point that I don't want to know the details and the reasons for that are much larger than the effect it will have on a University. That said, I can't help but think that if it can happen at PSU and with JoePa, it can happen anywhere. No organization, regardless of the presumed character of the leaders, can be completely immune to a nasty scandal.

If I understand the facts correctly, here's a summary of what happened:

1. A grad assistant told Paterno he saw Sandusky in the athletic department showers with a boy.

2. Paterno reported it to the higher ups at the athletic department. They conducted a "thorough investigation" and did nothing except deny Sandusky the right to succeed Paterno.

3. At some point the State College PD were notified. They also conducted a "thorough investigation" and did nothing.

4. Sandusky not only stayed on for years, but kept his access to the showers where he kept molesting boys - even after he retired.

5. Joe PA said he "had no idea" what was going on.

If these are indeed the facts, then here's what I'd like to see:

1. Sandusky and the school officials who enabled him spend the rest of his miserable lives as the harem of a prison gang.

2. Paterno gets fired, which has happened. He'll go down in history as the legendary CFB coach who knowingly let an accused pedophile use his team's showers to molest boys. He can also spend his few remaining years being sued by the victims of his negligence, and probably losing, and rightly so.

3. The local police who investigated Sandusky need to be investigated to see whether they covered it up. If so, they can be added to #1 above.

4. Those PSU students who held a pep rally for Paterno and rioted at his firing need to find a moral compass.

I'm in a completely different camp on this whole ordeal. JoePa is not the most important story. Jerry Sandusky, 2nd Mile, the cover up -- if it happened, the Penn State Officials who were involved and the effect of child sexual abuse on an adult are far more important journalism. The fact that the bloodsucking media turned the real important aspects of the story into a pitchfork crusade against an 84 year old man who reported the allegations to the appropriate people is disgusting.

JoePa should have done more, and yes, there should be some ink and coverage on that aspect after the other stories are completely covered. However, that doesn't draw people to the internet, television sets and newspapers. It is disgusting. I am not trying to absolve JoePa, but remember that allegations of sexual abuse are terrible things that cannot be taken back once brought out. Without much speculation, consider this hypothetical:

Someone made an allegation or a rumor circulated in 1998 about Sandusky. JoePa and school officials investigated and found no evidence to support the inuendo. Then in 2002 a young graduate assistant reports what he saw in a totally different context than what he told the grand jury. JoePa must have been skeptical because the previous rumors appeared unfounded and he had known the man for decades. He reports the allegations to his AD and the VP of the university. Then follows up on the investigation and is told that the allegations were investigated and that it was a misunderstanding and unfounded. Knowning that any action to bring an allegation of sexual abuse to light if unfounded would harm Sandusky, the children in 2nd Mile and Penn State, JoePa took the administration's word for it and relied upon his personal relationship with Sandusky to cloud his judgment. He goes on several years before the grand jury asks him to testify. He testifies honestly and the administrators he relied upon lied.

Based on this hypothetical, what did JoePa do to deserve the firestorm he is under and his career to be ended this way?

Not enough

What did he know and when did he know it? If the pedphile was fired because of it, why was he allowed back at the PSU facilities? JoPa didn't see him? Are PSU students rioting in favor of pedophilia or homosexual sex with little boys? Why hasn't anything been said about homosexual rape/ Are homos a protectied group now. How many Big 10 coaches have been fired for cause lately? Legends and Leaders, lol. Paying for their arrogance.

The fact that Sandusky was not removed from campus and his privileges revoked is unacceptable. Yahoo reported he was on campus there last week. That bugs me. If JoePa continued to maintain a relationship with this guy and let him be to do whatever it was that he was doing with 2nd Mile in the Penn State football facilities, then yes, he absolutely deserved to be fired. However, if he was told that it was investigated and resolved and relied upon that and his belief that he knew Sandusky, then he is just a niave old fool who did not do enough but should not have been catigated publically by the media. I am just not happy with sensationalistic journalism being irresponsible about the story.

Look at the Duke LaCrosse debacle. Obvioulsy this is totally different, BUT what if it is not. What if the prosecutor turns out to have conducted misconduct and that the allegations are false? I know it is unlikely considering the findings of fact by the grand jury, but for the media to have lambasted JoePa on this before even covering the Sandusky allegations just stinks to me. It was not about the kids as they all trumpet, it was about the allmighty better "story". Fucking parasites and jackholes IMHO. People say they hate lawyers, well I hate journalists.

Them too.

JoePa is Penn State football. He, to steal a W phrase, is the decider. Wasn't the AD one of his former players? Just like a decision made regarding something that happens involving Alabama football is Nick Saban's responsibility. The AD is a boss in name only.

AugustWest wrote:is DS advocating the destruction of a brewery? for all his faults I have a difficult time believing this. surely I'm misreading.

I'm advocating the destruction of the Lowe's behind the brewery.

I'm not sure why this discussion gravitated to this thread but;

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index. ... andus.html

That article is good journalism. Quotes, facts, focused on the victims, outlining the failures of Penn State and its officials, and then finally inferring JoePa knew or should have known, and therefore, failed as the leader of the program.

JoePa was just following his catholic altar boy training......

ok, so joepa, the AD, the PSU PD, etc, etc, etc were all morally negligent for not reporting the incident to the police - what about the grad assisstant? - does he not also bear the same moral responsibility? from what I understand he will be on the sideline this Saturday - how is it he has no culpability in this?

10ac wrote:I'm not sure why this discussion gravitated to this thread but;

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index. ... andus.html

Probably because it was late last night when I got home from work and I just chose this thread to vent.

BBB, since the PSUPD was informed, where does the culpability start or stop? They are a REAL PD... just sayin'

BBB, since the PSUPD was informed, where does the culpability start or stop? They are a REAL PD... just sayin'

To me, that's a vital point. If the only "police department" that was informed of the situation was the Penn State PD, then O...M....G.... I think we can all agree that a college campus PD is only competent to write parking tickets and let law enforcement majors ride around in police cars, feeling invincible with their trusty mace canisters. The rent-a-cops at your local mall are more professional. If PSU campus police conducted an "investigation," they were all excited to get Sandusky's autograph before they closed the case.

billy bob bocephus wrote:ok, so joepa, the AD, the PSU PD, etc, etc, etc were all morally negligent for not reporting the incident to the police - what about the grad assisstant? - does he not also bear the same moral responsibility? from what I understand he will be on the sideline this Saturday - how is it he has no culpability in this?

My guess is he's been a very cooperative EYE-witness, and therefore an official, legal whistle-blower. PSU can't fire him without violating a number of whistle-blower protection laws.

AA, too bad your son isn't a bit further along in his legal studies at Penn. He could get in on this ground-breaking legal event.

I have in-laws that are pretty connected to PSU. They are both PSU alumni. Their architectural firm designed the alumni center. They have had some personal dealings with Joe PA, and they told me several years ago that his advanced age is definitely affecting his thought processes. He is, shall we say, "easily distracted by shiny objects."

That does not excuse him in any way. But it is a warning to other octagenarians who hang around important jobs long after they should have retired. They can wind up causing tremendous damage because of their diminished faculties.

I'd like to say congratulations to any Alabama fan wanting to keep Kirby as our DC...If UGa continues this crushing of Auburn, they will not be firing Richt this season at least.