The Goat Pen

Professor Tiger wrote:So, according to you, Reagan was a liberal. Daily Kos. LMAO.

I will agree with you on one thing, though. The Republican war on illegal immigration is extremely dangerous for them strategically. The Hispanics will soon become a huge force in American politics. If the R's keep going out of their way to piss the Hispanics off, and they wind up voting for Democrats with the same robotic obedience that the blacks do already, the R's will be out of business for a long time.

We Blacks have that "robotic obedience" simply because the GOP gives us no alternative. I know plenty of pro-life, anti-tax, anti-welfare, anti-gay, small government African Americans who would vote Republican were in not for the blatantly overt racist appeals that the Republicans make to the Dixiecrat wing.

Believe it or not, Blacks used to vote 90% GOP until the Depression, and then it was 50/50 up until 1968, when Nixon cut a deal with the segregationists.

When my Dad died, I buried his Reagan/Bush card with him. He was born in the South in 1918 and since the head of the Klan was also the head of the County Democratic Party, he swore that if he EVER got to vote (which he did when he moved to Ohio), he'd never vote for a Democrat - and he never did.

Shoot, even my father-in-law, a retired Naval Officer who hadn't voted for a Democrat since Kennedy, finally voted Democrat for Obama - NOT because Obama was Black, but because he received several "Nigbama & Chimpelle" emails/pictures from <white> friends and associates who <hopefully> just forgot he was Black when they mass forwarded them. He just got fed up.

Bush might've run as a "true conservative" in 2000 (don't remember) but by 2004 I think it was pretty clear he was a moderate, what with the whole 'we're gonna make democracy flower in Iraq' stuff and No Child Left Behind and all that.

For the little it's worth, Eisenhower was far from the most conservative candidate the R's had in 1952 and Nixon beat out Reagan in 1968. Nixon would be considered a radical leftist in today's world.

Johnette's Daddy wrote:

Professor Tiger wrote:So, according to you, Reagan was a liberal. Daily Kos. LMAO.

I will agree with you on one thing, though. The Republican war on illegal immigration is extremely dangerous for them strategically. The Hispanics will soon become a huge force in American politics. If the R's keep going out of their way to piss the Hispanics off, and they wind up voting for Democrats with the same robotic obedience that the blacks do already, the R's will be out of business for a long time.

We Blacks have that "robotic obedience" simply because the GOP gives us no alternative. I know plenty of pro-life, anti-tax, anti-welfare, anti-gay, small government African Americans who would vote Republican were in not for the blatantly overt racist appeals that the Republicans make to the Dixiecrat wing.

No, I can't let you get away with that one. What "racist appeal" does the GOP offer the Dixiecrats? What racist impression did we give them and get their support in return? Be specific, no rhetoric. Give me an exact, historical event, that we can argue.

Do you even know what a Dixiecrat is? I'll give you a hint, it goes back to Lincoln and the Civil War.

If you want to say the Dixiecrats are more "Bible-thumpers" than your average white person, I might give you that. But I'm PROUD of the fact that the Bible is so important for Republicans (and as a result, we lost the Jews, unfortunately.) We in the GOP aren't just a party of Conservatives. We care about the teachings of Christ (that is what separates us from pure libertarians and Ayn Randian Objectivists.)

The only thing that is "racist" about being a Republican, is the lie repeated by Bill Maher and other Democrats that all racists happen to be Republican. If you want to say that the GOP wants people to stand on their own two feet (which would in-turn, take away aid and welfare from the inner city) is therefore being "racist", then there is no point in us continuing this conversation. We are at a total impasse on human nature. I am proud of my Republican Party, proud that they believe that al people (regardless of religion, skin color, or ethnic background) are able to stand on their own two feet. I do NOT get that impression from the Democratic Party. Infact, what I get from them is that they believe that some people simply can't help themselves specifically because of their racial background, which is why Democrats are so in favor of government spending. To me, that is "...scratch a liberal, find a bigot."

Johnette's Daddy wrote:Believe it or not, Blacks used to vote 90% GOP until the Depression, and then it was 50/50 up until 1968, when Nixon cut a deal with the segregationists.

Wrong.

It was LBJ in 1964 and his Great Society that moved them over to the Democrats. Blacks didn't leave the GOP because of anything Nixon did.

Johnette's Daddy wrote:When my Dad died, I buried his Reagan/Bush card with him. He was born in the South in 1918 and since the head of the Klan was also the head of the County Democratic Party, he swore that if he EVER got to vote (which he did when he moved to Ohio), he'd never vote for a Democrat - and he never did.

Shoot, even my father-in-law, a retired Naval Officer who hadn't voted for a Democrat since Kennedy, finally voted Democrat for Obama - NOT because Obama was Black, but because he received several "Nigbama & Chimpelle" emails/pictures from <white> friends and associates who <hopefully> just forgot he was Black when they mass forwarded them. He just got fed up.

Any chance you could post one of those emails? More to the point, how do you know (or how does your father-in-law know) that those <white> friends were Republicans? Because if they are Democrats, then what your father-in-law did, makes no sense. And actually, it makes no sense no matter what political party they are part of, because you can't blame an entire poltical party for the actions of a few bigots. But I will say this, regardless of who he votes for (and regardless of his skin complexion) I would like to thank your father-in-law for his service in the Navy. I may be just another Christ-loving, Bible thumping, white-male-Republican, but I'm no bigot.

Naw. You're just an idiot.

innocentbystander wrote:No, I can't let you get away with that one. What "racist appeal" does the GOP offer the Dixiecrats? What racist impression did we give them and get their support in return? Be specific, no rhetoric. Give me an exact, historical event, that we can argue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02342.html

It was called "the southern strategy," started under Richard M. Nixon in 1968, and described Republican efforts to use race as a wedge issue -- on matters such as desegregation and busing -- to appeal to white southern voters.

Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, this morning will tell the NAACP national convention in Milwaukee that it was "wrong."

"By the '70s and into the '80s and '90s, the Democratic Party solidified its gains in the African American community, and we Republicans did not effectively reach out," Mehlman says in his prepared text. "Some Republicans gave up on winning the African American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

I'll deal with the rest of your drivel later. FWIW, I'm a Black Christian Pastor who double majored in Poli-Sci and History, so yes, I know what a Dixiecrat is and I know when Blacks left the GOP. I bailed in 1980 after Bush lost out to Reagan.

It was LBJ in 1964 and his Great Society that moved them over to the Democrats. Blacks didn't leave the GOP because of anything Nixon did.

That's just wrong. The most significant move begin in the great depression and with Roosevelt. Another move occurred in response to Truman (who integrated the arms forces against the opinion of Eisenhower and against the wishes of the majority of people in the military at the time). The upset of Truman was the first time that more Blacks identified themselves as Democrats. Later Johnson in 1964 because of the fear of Goldwater, the Civil Rights Act and love for Kennedy after his death (Great Society programs weren't passed until after 1964). After 1965 Voting Rights act combined with the Southern strategy of Nixon and the move of Southern Dixiecrats to the Republican party, Republicans seemed to just not care. Bush made a little bit of a push in 2000, but there were too many ignored comments by Republican officials that hurt the rep.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/blacks ... tic-party/

My grandmother died one month ago. 99 years old, a life-long Republican, a domestic for a very wealthy Texas family (who ran for RR commissioner in Texas as a Republican and who was a close friend of the Bush's). She used to talk about the Bush kids coming over to the house. Loved Jeb, hated Jr. who she said was just bad.

Johnette's Daddy wrote:

innocentbystander wrote:No, I can't let you get away with that one. What "racist appeal" does the GOP offer the Dixiecrats? What racist impression did we give them and get their support in return? Be specific, no rhetoric. Give me an exact, historical event, that we can argue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02342.html

It was called "the southern strategy," started under Richard M. Nixon in 1968, and described Republican efforts to use race as a wedge issue -- on matters such as desegregation and busing -- to appeal to white southern voters.

Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, this morning will tell the NAACP national convention in Milwaukee that it was "wrong."

"By the '70s and into the '80s and '90s, the Democratic Party solidified its gains in the African American community, and we Republicans did not effectively reach out," Mehlman says in his prepared text. "Some Republicans gave up on winning the African American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

I'll deal with the rest of your drivel later. FWIW, I'm a Black Christian Pastor who double majored in Poli-Sci and History, so yes, I know what a Dixiecrat is and I know when Blacks left the GOP. I bailed in 1980 after Bush lost out to Reagan.

So I guess that means you came back to the GOP in 1988 when Bush beat everyone else? Or (Pastor) did you stick with the Democrats even in 1992 and 1996 when they ran a sexist, womanizer as their candidate? As a White Christian Pastor who double majored in Computer Science and Mathematics, even I know that supporting Bill isn't Christian.

With all due respect sir, the article you quoted is trash. It was not 1968. It was 1964 when the GOP nominated a pro-abortion candidate that was ready to NUKE North Vietnam (instead of just carpet bombing them the way Nixon did) and the Democrats nominated a man who promised a Great Society. That was the turning point for African-Americans to turn into the Democratic Party's strongest voting block. And it has only exaserbated sir because or another cultural bedrock that has been torn away from black America, marriage.

Pastor, women (regardless of their skin complexion) tend to vote Democrat until they get married. The moment they get married and start having children, they tend to vote Republican. And they return to the Democratic Party NOT when their husband dies (widows are a very strong GOP voting block), but instead, if their husband is an asshole and they lare forced to leave them in divorce. It is typically only those married women who are BPD that continue to support the Democratic Party even in their unhappy marriage (and those unhappy marriages do not last very long anyway since she is BPD, is never satisfied with anything her husband can give her, and she involves law-enforcement at some point when she bails on the marriage. The divorce is NEVER her fault anyway, ask any of your Goat Pen bretheren here to tell you about their psychotic lying ex-wives.) Pastor, you and I both know that only 30% of African-American women over the age of 18 are married. That's it. With all due respect sir, that is the main reason why black women in this country vote Democrat, a lack of marriage.

LBJs Great Society has brought great ruin to our beloved country because it tweaked with human nature in a way that allowed some people to game the system. Public housing in the 1950s was a place for functioning families that has marriage, a temporary place for families saving up to buy their very first home. They were the only ones allowed IN public housing. Allowing single moms to have public housing and financial assistance (instead of having those moms go to a home for wayward girls where she gives birth in secracy and gives the child up for adoption) has created a perminant underclass in our society where women marry government by voting for the party that gives them the most entitlement, Democrats.

Your history is mixed up Pastor. It was 1964, not 1968. It was the Great Society sir, not Nixon's southern strategy. No one would have been proud to support Goldwater. Nixon won in a rout in 1968 (and again in 1972) because he promised to end the way in Vietnam, not because of any promise made to bigots in the South. Nixon was going to win in 1968 no matter what. And he ended the war the GOP wanted him to do it, to win the war (at all costs) even if it meant flying the B-52s, round the clock, bombing the retreating NVA anywhere including Cambodia if necessary. The war was won in 1973 and almost everyone in this country loved Nixon for it. We only LOST the war in 1975 because of Watergate and a Democrat Congressmen that hated all things GOP that refused to give President Ford the money to send the B52s back into Vietnam to enforce those Paris Peace Accords that they signed in 1973.

Largely, the black members of our Congregation vote GOP. They admire President Obama (as we all do) but do not support him. They are supporting Romney, and its not necessarily because they like Willard Mitt any more than they do the President. It is instead, because they are happily married.

innocentbystander wrote:So I guess that means you came back to the GOP in 1988 when Bush beat everyone else? Or (Pastor) did you stick with the Democrats even in 1992 and 1996 when they ran a sexist, womanizer as their candidate? As a White Christian Pastor who double majored in Computer Science and Mathematics, even I know that supporting Bill isn't Christian.

Why would I come back? The party has gotten increasingly more racist and divisive since 1980. As far as Bill's sexism and womanizing - almost all male politicians are sexist womanizers (see: King David). Or Newt Gingrich.

With all due respect sir, the article you quoted is trash. It was not 1968. It was 1964 when the GOP nominated a pro-abortion candidate that was ready to NUKE North Vietnam (instead of just carpet bombing them the way Nixon did) and the Democrats nominated a man who promised a Great Society. That was the turning point for African-Americans to turn into the Democratic Party's strongest voting block. And it has only exaserbated sir because or another cultural bedrock that has been torn away from black America, marriage.

So you, the white male, are telling me, the black male former Republican, when and why Black people left? And cotradict the former head of the GOP as well? I can post 500 more links, but I have to run in and preach 2nd service - I'll be back tonight.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/blacks ... tic-party/

Please look at the numbers. African Americans have predominately voting Democrat since at least 1932. The Great Society programs were 1965. The big support was due to the 1964 Civil Rights Act. They weren't the only ones of course. IN 1964, most demographics supported Johnson

JD, I'm still waiting for you to quote a single SPECIFIC instance of supposed racism espoused by the Republican party in the past 50 years or so. You won't because you can't.

As long as we're talking history, it was southern DEMOCRATS that fought the hardest against civil rights legislation. The only reason civil rights passed was because a big majority of Republicans voted for it. But you'll never enter that little fact into your robotic paradigm that only Republicans are racists.

Moreover, the only former grand Wizard of the KKK that served for decades in the Senate, and who filibustered against the Civil Rights act for 14 hours and 13 minutes, was a Democrat. But you wouldn't enter that little fact into your robotic paradigm that only Republicans are racists.

Then there is the undeniable fact that, while Democrats talk about putting blacks in positions of authority, Republicans actually do it. The only black currently on the US Supreme Court was appointed by a Republican president. Democrat presidents have had multiple opportunities to appoint another black to SCOTUS, but they just never seemed to get around to it, for some reason. Also, the first black National Security Advisor, the first black Secretary of State, the first black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff were all appointed by a REPUBLICAN president. But you'll never enter that little fact into your robotic paradigm that only Republicans are racists.

And haven't you noticed how every time a black Republican man pursues power, he is framed with the ugliest racial stereotypical charges imaginable? Where was the black community when Clarence Thomas was being given a high tech lynching for saying "There's a pubic hair in my coke"? Where was the black community when Herman Cain was being accused of a sexual affair? There was none of the "all politicians get a little cooch" pass that blacks gave to Clinton. All racial solidarity instinct disappeared when the D was substituted with an R. But you'll never enter that little fact into your robotic paradigm that only Republicans are racists.

Then there's this question: blacks have been voting like robots for Democrats for at least 50 years. What has this loyalty gotten them? Blacks have voted into power a large number of Democrat governors big-city mayors, Democrat congressmen, Democrat city councilmen, Democrat police chiefs, Democrat school superintendents, and now a black Democrat president. You'd think that with all that tribal representation at every level of government, the black community would be booming. But instead, black unemployment is 15%, almost double that of the rest of the country. I think it was Sheila Jackson Lee who was at least honest enough to say, "If this were any other President, we'd be marching in the streets." But for some reason, blacks seem content to vote like robots for a party that hasn't delivered diddly for them economically for fifty years. But you'll never enter that little fact into your robotic paradigm that only Republicans are racists.

By contrast, the R's ran the whole federal government for 8 years. I don't remember them sending blacks to the back of the bus, or re-instituting segregated water fountains, etc. If they wanted to "Lock y'all back in chains" like Biden warned, they had every means to do so. But they didn't. I guess they were too busy creating black SCOTUS justices, black JCS chiefs, black SECSTATE's, etc. But you'll never enter that little fact into your robotic paradigm that only Republicans are racists.

Professor Tiger wrote:I'm still waiting for JD to quote a single instance of supposed racism espoused by the Republican party in the past 50 years or so. He won't because he can't.

Did you skip my link/quote of the former head of the REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE? The one where he APOLOGIZED TO THE NAACP FOR REPUBLICAN RACISM?

As long as we're talking history, it was southern DEMOCRATS that fought the hardest against civil rights legislation. The only reason civil rights passed was because Republicans voted for it. But you'll never enter that little fact into your robotic paradigm that only Republicans are racists.

Uh, dude - that was MY POINT! The Republicans were ALWAYS the Progressive Party on racial issues pretty much through Eisenhower. I was the one who said that changed with Nixon's Southern Strategy in 1968.

And haven't you noticed how every time a black Republican man pursues power, he is framed with the ugliest racial stereotypical charges imaginable. Where was the black community when Clarence Thomas was being given a high tech lynching for saying "There's a pubic hair in my coke"? Where was the black community when Herman Cain was being accused? There was none of the "all politicians get a little cooch" pass that blacks gave to Clinton. All racial solidarity instinct disappeared when the D was substituted with an R. But you'll never enter that little fact into your robotic paradigm that only Republicans are racists.

Notice we didn't say those things about Edward Brooke (Black Republican elected to the Senate in 1966), William T. Coleman (worked for Eisenhower and Ford administrations), Art Fletcher (the Father of Affirmative Action, worked in 4 GOP White Houses), Ted Hayes (homeless activist in Los Angeles), Zora Neale Hurston (activist/author), Alphoso Jackson (HUD Sec'y under W), Martin Luther King, Sr., Colin Powell, Jackie Robinson, Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Steele, Lynn Swann, Eldridge Cleaver, Tom Sayles and tens of dozens of other prominent Black Republicans?

What YOU conveniently ignore is the number of prominent Southern Democrats who switched to the GOP over racial issues between 1964-1974: Strom Thurmond, Jerry Falwell, Jesse Helms, John Connally, and hundreds more.

The most telling item, however, is that as I post links to articles in re: GOP's defined strategy of race baiting - quoting GOP sources - you cannot post anything to even remotely suggest a GOP desire to reach out to the black community (Michael Steele tried and was subsequently drummed out of the RNC chair as a result).

The absolute worse thing about the diatribe PT is the assertion that African Americans have no thought to their voting. Voting like Robots as opposed to voting for the President that pushed through against opposition from a minority in his own party the Civil Rights Act. Or even the absurd idea that vague promises about the Great Society (which I'm even allowing your assertion Johnson ran on creating a Great Society, I'm not at all sure that he ran on such a message) or Great Society programs held more sway than the President that got rid of official govt sponsored racism in the South

BY the way JD, I believe that while the rest of the people on your list were Republicans, Douglas Wilder was and is a Democrat.

Ironically, I have been a registered independent since 1984. As a result, I get solicited by both parties (and have been part of numerous polls)

you cannot post anything to even remotely suggest a GOP desire to reach out to the black community

I just gave you several: Condy Rice, Clarence Thomas, Herman Cain, Michael Steele... but none of those count with you.

By the way, for all their black loving rhetoric, why didn't Clinton or Obama nominate a black SCOTUS judge? Why haven't the Dem's appointed a black DNC chairman like the R's did? Why haven't the Dem's appointed a black SECSTATE or NSA or JCS Chairman?

But you don't consider actual performance of racial equality to be significant. You are still satisfied with eternal lip service by Dem's, with no consideration they haven't done anything of actual substance for the black community over the last 40 years. You are a robot.

Where was the black community when Clarence Thomas was being given a high tech lynching for saying "There's a pubic hair in my coke"?

Since the accusation against him was by a Republican and those who testified against him were for the most part Black Republicans and those testifying for him were also Black Republicans, I suspect, most didn't think about watched like the soap opera it was.

incidentally, there has been a Black head of the DNC (and right now at least one Vice chair is Black). Of course the DNC head is a Jewish woman.

Since the accusation against him was by a Republican and those who testified against him were for the most part Black Republicans and those testifying for him were also Black Republicans, I suspect, most didn't think about watched like the soap opera it was.

Funny how Anita Hill changed jobs with Clarence Thomas after he supposedly sexually harassed her. And his allegedly saying "There's a pubic hair on my coke" rained Democrat death down on Clarence Thomas. But the Dem's had no problem with Clinton spilling his seed on the presidential seal of the Oval Office with an intern. In that case, it was just "boys will be boys."

(and right now at least one Vice chair is Black).

Hurray for the Dem's. They finally made it halfway to achieving what the R's did by putting a black man in charge of the whole US military 20 years ago. But I forgot: Republicans are racists. Only the Dem's do anything to reach out to black people.

did you conveniently skip over the fact that there was a Black head of the DNC years ago or do you just ignore facts to make a point?

Ah yes, Donna Brazille. Wiki says

She briefly served as interim Chair for the DNC in the spring of 2011.

Note the terms "briefly" and "interim" and "in the spring of." The Dem's couldn't stand having a black running their party for any length of time. But i forgot - only Republicans are racists and appoint "briefly" and "interim" DNC Chairman. Sort of like their appointing of a JCS "Vice" Chairman.

ROFLMAO.