The Goat Pen

Bklyn wrote:I may be insane for trying to educate your primitive, religiously myopic ass. You do have a point there.

Paige (Sikh Temple) was confirmed to have talked about the coming Holy War and was a White Supremacist. McVeigh was a known consort, if not full member, of the "Christian" organization known as the KKK. However, maybe your onto something, as they were no more a Christian than you are.

not to split hairs but regardless of what McVeigh belonged to, his motivation for blowing shit up was he was staunchly anti-government. His driver was his outrage over Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Seems to me we have one segment of our society that doesn't think twice about putting gun owners under extra scrutiny even though only a small % (a statistically insignificant %) of legal gun (if any at all) owners are the issue with these mass murders yet people would come unglued decrying individual rights if we suggested that we put all Muslims in America under that same level of scrutiny.

At its heart, almost all terrorism is political. Muslims aren't attacking the US because of religion, but because of politics. Religion is just a handy excuse when you want to rile up the idiot foot soldiers.

Background checks is a meaningless regulation that won't prevent the criminal nor the crazy from obtaining weapons. It is a worthless exercise.

sardis wrote: It is a worthless exercise.

You misspelled feelgood.

aTm wrote:At its heart, almost all terrorism is political. Muslims aren't attacking the US because of religion, but because of politics. Religion is just a handy excuse when you want to rile up the idiot foot soldiers.

^This

eCat wrote:

Bklyn wrote:I may be insane for trying to educate your primitive, religiously myopic ass. You do have a point there.

Paige (Sikh Temple) was confirmed to have talked about the coming Holy War and was a White Supremacist. McVeigh was a known consort, if not full member, of the "Christian" organization known as the KKK. However, maybe your onto something, as they were no more a Christian than you are.

not to split hairs but regardless of what McVeigh belonged to, his motivation for blowing shit up was he was staunchly anti-government. His driver was his outrage over Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Seems to me we have one segment of our society that doesn't think twice about putting gun owners under extra scrutiny even though only a small % (a statistically insignificant %) of legal gun (if any at all) owners are the issue with these mass murders yet people would come unglued decrying individual rights if we suggested that we put all Muslims in America under that same level of scrutiny.

What level of scrutiny are you referencing here, with regard to Muslims?

sardis wrote:Background checks is a meaningless regulation that won't prevent the criminal nor the crazy from obtaining weapons. It is a worthless exercise.

Hence my point. Get rid of them. After all, we have rules against stealing but they don't prevent the criminal from stealing.

Bklyn wrote:

eCat wrote:

Bklyn wrote:I may be insane for trying to educate your primitive, religiously myopic ass. You do have a point there.

Paige (Sikh Temple) was confirmed to have talked about the coming Holy War and was a White Supremacist. McVeigh was a known consort, if not full member, of the "Christian" organization known as the KKK. However, maybe your onto something, as they were no more a Christian than you are.

not to split hairs but regardless of what McVeigh belonged to, his motivation for blowing shit up was he was staunchly anti-government. His driver was his outrage over Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Seems to me we have one segment of our society that doesn't think twice about putting gun owners under extra scrutiny even though only a small % (a statistically insignificant %) of legal gun (if any at all) owners are the issue with these mass murders yet people would come unglued decrying individual rights if we suggested that we put all Muslims in America under that same level of scrutiny.

What level of scrutiny are you referencing here, with regard to Muslims?

nothing in particular - just that if we were to say for example that every Muslim must be registered and investigated, people would lose their minds - yet we have a specific reason to believe that a subset of Muslims in this country are here to do harm. No such qualms about gun owners.

You can't equate the two.

However, militia groups, hate groups as defined by the SPLC, fundie Christian sects advocating murder of abortion doctors and some Muslim organizations/mosques are actively infiltrated and monitored by law enforcement at a local and federal level.

I think the government has a better handle on the extremists, whether religious or anti-government, than they do on gun ownership. I think you are linking the wrong pieces for your argument.

"Muslims aren't attacking the US because of religion, but because of politics."

You can't really separate a person's religious views from his political views, even when looking at relatively mundane shit like gay marriage or abortion. A person's religious views quite often inform (often wholly inform) his political views. When it comes to more extreme examples, I'd say the correlation b/w religious and political views is even stronger...

True, but I think its the desire to effect political change that results in terrorism. I dont believe that Islam is capable of sustaining some kind of jihad against other religions. They are able to amplify political disagreements. There is no religious differences between protestants and catholics that necessarily cause violence when you mix the two, especially in the 20th century, and yet you were able to have what basically amounted to a religious conflict over Ireland. The religion certainly was a major influenceand closely tied to the politics of each side, but it was the differing and incompatible political goals that made them start killing each other and not just their religion.

I dont think religious leaders in a country that is stable and doing great are able to suddenly say, "You know, things are awesome now, but you know what would be great? Lets murder those other people for not following our religion." and have their followers actually do it. There has to be a real politcal difference to get to that point.

all religion is bad. Period. Think for yourself and quit living your life from a book.

religion does allow a frammework for fostering better morality in society. I believe it fosters better chance for a traditional american family that most agree can be the central factor in how our kids develop. obviously there isnt any foolproof predictors one wway or another of what happens to our thinking processes, interpreting good vs poor behavior, etc etc.

to say all religion is bad is pushing it.., I think the narrow constrictive viewpoints of muslim, southern baptist etc are bad but the honest framework of many relgious practices encourages good

Organized religion in any country is a joke.

Faith on the other hand is something that should be taught along with general human principles of don't kill each for shits and giggles, protect yourself and family, be loyal to your family, don't steal shit, etc..... You get the drift.

Religion is the bad part of faith. it's man's attempt to define god and then use it as a means to power. Even when the intent is not malicious, the very idea of constraining something that no one has been able to define or prove its existence carries far too much potential for harm.

so I stand by my original statement: All religion is bad.

BigRedMan wrote:Organized religion in any country is a joke.

Faith on the other hand is something that should be taught along with general human principles of don't kill each for shits and giggles, protect yourself and family, be loyal to your family, don't steal shit, etc..... You get the drift.

Faith in what should be taught? For that matter, why is there any value at all in faith? Why would you want to teach people to believe in something for which there is no evidence? Fuck faith. Encourage skepticism.

That's a good summation of section 54 of Nietzsche's "The Antichrist"...

Cletus wrote:

BigRedMan wrote:Organized religion in any country is a joke.

Faith on the other hand is something that should be taught along with general human principles of don't kill each for shits and giggles, protect yourself and family, be loyal to your family, don't steal shit, etc..... You get the drift.

Faith in what should be taught? For that matter, why is there any value at all in faith? Why would you want to teach people to believe in something for which there is no evidence? Fuck faith. Encourage skepticism.

I don't know if what I will say will make any sense.

Faith that there is out something out there that gives us purpose, soul, decision making process. Faith in that, this here and now, isn't the end that there is more.

many people hav faith that there is something more the us

Just how evolved those something elses are and whether those something elses can explain where the universe begins and ends and when time started and how did nothing become something and the entire spectrum of our place in the universe

there is no evidence supporting there is life outside our universe but most are not skeptical enough to think we are the only lifeforms that exist. and if life exits exists elsewhere whos to say they havent discovered an eternal life somewhere

(takes another bong hit)