The Goat Pen

Really? You watched that crap?

Bklyn wrote:Part bad-ass spy thriller, part cautionary tale about the karmic wheel turning when you try to influence foreign matters to suit your interests...

http://www.mensjournal.com/black-ops-an ... ney/print/

That is a good read . I guess losing the CIA there wasn't as crippling as we thought given we killed Osama.

I liked the part about the "switch" that flipped on him. I think about that often - its one thing to carry around a gun but in his case - he had to make a decision, and given the context, it was pretty easy - a guy was drawing a gun on him. But at what point do you stop shooting people?

A guy was going to drag one of his support team from the land cruiser and the driver had just killed a man riding a motorcycle and the driver chose restraint and just pointed his gun at him. He could have just as easily made the decision to unload on those people to scatter them and then took off.

eCat wrote:I watched the debate last night. Romney was clearly the most prepared.

Ron Paul didn't do very well. His biggest problem is that he can't explain his position with talking points. He has to turn every question into a referendum of his philosophy when just a 3 sentences would tell the audience what they want to know. He had a perfect opportunity last night regarding a question related to bringing manufacturing back. The gist of his answer was that our corporate tax policy is so high that companies are forced to offshore their resources and money when they really want to bring it back to the United States - and that is what he said, except it took him 5 minutes to get there and he just jumped in the middle of his thought process without giving the audience the benefit of any context as to what he was saying.

That was the first time I've seen Bachmann talk and she didn't come off as nutty as I thought. For the life of me though I can't figure out why the tea party likes any candidate that claims to be a social conservative first. To me that name in itself is an oxymoron. You can't legislate morality. Period. Why is that so hard to understand for Americans?

I agree with all you said. I think the clear winners were Bachman and Romney. Bachmann gave enough red meat for the masses and sounded reasonable. Plus she was able to announce that she was running in front of everybody. Cain (who never had a chance anyway) was shown to be weak in his understanding of the issues and no depth of thought to him. The clear loser was Pawlenty. He has to go after Romney and he absolutely refused to do so, even asked about his complaints about him. Not only that, he weakened what has been a strong line, ObaneyCare. Ron Paul just didn't perform that well. Flipflop (Romney) was polished but left so many openings that none of his opponents called him on. Abortion, his poor explanation of the difference between PPACA and the Massachusetts health care plan, even his assertion that he knows how to create jobs (in his business, he cut more jobs than he created and while governor of Massachusetts, the state was 47th out of 50 in job creation). The teaparty should have loved the debate, but I doubt there was much that would excite most independents.

Pawlenty was going for the VP job last night

Santorum was the guy I disliked the most of the bunch. I give him credit for saying he backed the Ryan plan (why isn't Ryan up there running for president?, half the guys last night were talking about how great his plan was) which I believe is risky to the general public who aren't ready to accept major changes to government run medicare and social security. He came off as an asshole to me though. I didn't know who he was, just by his name so I didn't really have an opinion on him one way or another but I didn't like how he handled himself.

Pawlenty gave the war hawk answer and gave tacet approval to Obama for going in Yemen. Romney is also a war hawk but he knows better - you'd have to drag him kicking and screaming to get him to admit it. He learned that lesson the hard way in 2008.

Romney wasn't worried about a single candidate on that stage last night - A Rick Perry announcement with a Sara Palin endorsement is his biggest concern now. That means Fox News will be on board for Rick Perry, as well as Limbaugh and Romney will have to fight the mormon shit as well as ObamneyCare which is a word that will follow Romney his entire campaign.

I think Perry being a Texas guy will bother him though. Given the field right now and the level of apathy, while there is a great number of people who don't want Obama to win, there isn't enough of them willing to vote for just anyone to replace him ,and so far Romney hasn't done enough to make him a better candidate than Obama (although he tried desperately last night to paint just that image - just vote republican - any of us are better than Obama!). Perry may see the political tea leaves, take a gamble and believe his best shot is Romney losing to Obama and him sliding in as President in 2016. Interesting discussion on that this morning on NPR.

eCat wrote:
Santorum was the guy I disliked the most of the bunch.... He came off as an asshole to me though. I didn't know who he was, just by his name so I didn't really have an opinion on him one way or another but I didn't like how he handled himself.

With a name like "Santorum" there has to be something involving "asshole" about him.

"Cain was asked about a quote where he said he would not hire a muslim on staff"

After he answered, the moderator should've asked "Well, what about a Mormon? Would you hire one ofthem??"

He had a perfect opportunity last night regarding a question related to bringing manufacturing back. The gist of his answer was that our corporate tax policy is so high that companies are forced to offshore their resources and money when they really want to bring it back to the United States

You realize that's not right, though?

Mormons

There's a big media push coming from the LDS to advance their cause/name. They're dropping big dollars on a "I Am A Mormon" campaign. Partly for the church and partly for Romney. They want to take advantage of the buzz (good and bad) from the B'way play and Romney's candidacy. I don't know if it'll work, but it is well timed. Romney definitely needs the help in that department.

Rick Perry

I think he sits out until he can get enough months away from all that secessionist talk of his. He's more of a 2016 player, IMO.

There's no way Obama doesn't get reelected in 2012, and it won't be that close...

"Romney definitely needs the help in that department."

There are lots of hardcore country christians of every denomination who won't vote for a Mormon for the same reason they would never vote for a democrat. I'm not sure what that reason is, but whatever it is, they won't do it. He's just "one of them", whatever that means. He wouldn't get much of the black or hispanic vote anyway, but being a mormon probably cancels out the 2 or 3 hundred that he might've gotten...

hedge wrote:
There are lots of hardcore country christians of every denomination who won't vote for a Mormon for the same reason they would never vote for a democrat. I'm not sure what that reason is, but whatever it is, they won't do it.

It's because they aren't christians by any sane definition. No matter how many times and ways they try to say different.

I've heard corporate heads say that they have money in reserve out of the country they would love to reinvest back in the United States but our corporate taxes are highly than most other industrialized nations.

I have no reason to not believe them so , yes, I believe that is right.

I never understood the logic of decreasing taxes on the wealthy when we have a progressive tax under the idea that would result in more jobs.

The wealthy have already reached a point where they have both their basic needs and luxuries covered. Increased savings from tax dollars would not translate in them going on a spending spree.

However reducing corporate taxes would in turn free up money that would in some percentage translate to more money for personnel - either in the form of increased wages or additional headcount.

I was thinking about how important last night was to some of these candidates. A good showing in a nationally televised debate and you can count on a bump in donations. A poor showing and you are riding around in a 1979 Dodge Van as your campaign bus.

Herman Caine is on the market for a Dodge van today.

Ron Paul was probably close to that, but he has such a dedicated following they'll just dump money into his campaign regardless of what he says.

The corporate tax rate is on profits. There are so many loopholes that are effective corporate tax rate is actually one of the lowest in the world. How else can GE get money back from the govt.

First rule of negotiations, never negotiate for a percentage of profits with a business. Most profits are line-itemed out through expenses. You are liable to end up with zero.

if a businessmen told me that he was keeping money away due to our tax rate, I laugh in his face. That's a comment "Joe the plumber" would make. My friend of mine has over 8000 apartment units, travels all over the world, lives in 3500 square feet apartment (not including storage) wife drives a BMW convertible and he's never shown more than $30,000 income and it's all completely legal.

so you're saying reducing corporate taxes wouldn't help jobs?

No, he's calling you "Joe the Plumber"

yea I decided to skip over that one

I hold eCat in infinitely higher exteem than Joe the Plumber. But the argument about the corporate tax rate is extremely misleading without all the line item business expenses that are allowed. Our effective corporate tax rate is pretty low compared to our leading competitor Europe.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think lowering the corporate tax rate would in any way help jobs, especially since hiring someone is a line-item expense that offsets the tax anyway.

On the other hand, changing the payroll tax.......?

My friend of mine has over 8000 apartment units, travels all over the world, lives in 3500 square feet apartment (not including storage) wife drives a BMW convertible and he's never shown more than $30,000 income and it's all completely legal.

Your friend has a 3500 sf apt? that sounds like a warehouse

An apartment complex one of his companies owns. He strung together 3 apartments which he knocked down walls and customized