The Goat Pen

South Carolina Church Shooter Identified (Reuters) - Dylann Roof, the man suspected of fatally shooting nine people at a historic African American church in South Carolina on Wednesday, was given a gun by his father as a 21st birthday present in April, his uncle told Reuters on Thursday.

The uncle said he recognized Roof in a photo released by police, and described him as a quiet and soft-spoken. Roof's father gave him a .45-caliber pistol for his birthday this year, Cowles said.

"Nobody in my family had seen anything like this coming," Cowles said. "I said, if it is him, and when they catch him, he's got to pay for this."

He said he had told his sister, Roof's mother, several years ago that Roof was too introverted. "I said he was like 19 years old, he still didn't have a job, a driver's license or anything like that and he just stayed in his room a lot of the time," Cowles said.

A woman who answered the cellphone of the suspect's mother Amelia Roof, also known as Amy, declined to comment. "We will be no interviews ever," she said before hanging up.

The almost-perfect gift for the loner-loser son who never comes out of his room (a Bushmaster would have been the obvious choice).

Toemeesleather wrote: 2/3 of which were committed against blacks in 2013 - continue to flourish.


What is the incidence rate of white's shooting up black church's? (Your headline)

Does any other type killing continue to flourish besides whites killing blacks?(think Chicago) Are they less important to you?


Is this 2015 or 1955?

For you, Jessie, Al and other race pimps, it's obviously 1955.


Oh, and just for sh!ts and grins......who killed Nicole Simpson?

PM me your picture. I need to get it to my security team.

I'm just going to express sorrow and pray for the victims and families of the Charleston church shooting, and leave the politics out of that horrible tragedy. Some things are more important than politics.

Well said. too bad it had to be said

Toe picked a good day to go on another rant about how white supremacists and racists are a figment of black imaginations.

Professor Tiger wrote:I'm just going to express sorrow and pray for the victims and families of the Charleston church shooting, and leave the politics out of that horrible tragedy. Some things are more important than politics.

Politics/race were very important to the killer and are central to his motive soooooo...at what point would you be willing to have a discussion about it?

I was just focusing on the vicious murder of 9 innocent human beings and the devastated families they leave behind. And the POS that did this, who will face justice for what he did. Compassion and respect seems to be the first order of business.

But if you insist on talking about the politics of it, I agree there are plenty of lunatics out there, most of them also mentally ill, who do this sort of thing with sickening regularity. They are motivated by a lot of different things - Boston Marathon, Sandy Hook, Aurora Theater, Ft Hood, VA. Tech - were done by lunatics that were not motivated by race. This Charleston POS WAS motivated by race. That is disgusting, as is killing people to get 72 virgins in paradise, or whatever. All the above are very real and very tragic. The victims are just as dead, whatever the motivation. Evil is evil. Mental illness seems to be the common denominator on most of the mass murderers. I suspect that will be the case here.

You can argue that the easy access to guns is the other part of the problem. In a broad sense, I agree. We have a lot of mass murders because we have a lot of guns in America. But I disagree with the liberals in that I don't think that can ever change. America has been a gun-toting country since the pilgrims got off the Mayflower with their blunderbusses. The use of guns was essential to colonial life in hunting for food, fighting Indians and, eventually, fighting the British. The gun culture was enshrined in the Constitution not for hunting but for self defense and an insurance policy against tyranny. The gun culture was enhanced by the settling of the West. For better or worse, guns are in our national DNA.

The liberals dream of taking away everybody's guns as a solution to the problem, which is silly. First off, most gun owners won't obey that law. It would be Prohibition times a thousand. Second, even if most law-abiding gun owners did turn in their guns, the Gangster Disciples, the Vice Lords and the Latin Kings most assuredly will not. There will be more mass murder (Chicago style) not less.

Third, the Constitutional reason for having a Second Amendment is just as relevant today as it ever was. A person living in a crime ridden neighborhood still deserves the right to defend himself and his home. And the possiblity of a tyrannical government (right or left), or no government at all, has not disappeared.

"Evil is evil. Mental illness seems to be the common denominator on most of the mass murderers. I suspect that will be the case here."

That seems like a non sequitor, unless you are suggesting that mental illness is evil. Although I guess if you allow that mental illness comes from God and therefor God is evil, I guess I could follow you logic on that. But I doubt that's what you're saying...

"The use of guns was essential to colonial life in hunting for food, fighting Indians and, eventually, fighting the British. The gun culture was enshrined in the Constitution not for hunting but for self defense and an insurance policy against tyranny."

Are you suggesting that guns were used primarily for self defense against indians?

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Toe picked a good day to go on another rant about how white supremacists and racists are a figment of black imaginations.

Was the statement about white people shooting up churches not a rant....never mind.

hedge wrote:"Evil is evil. Mental illness seems to be the common denominator on most of the mass murderers. I suspect that will be the case here."

That seems like a non sequitor, unless you are suggesting that mental illness is evil. Although I guess if you allow that mental illness comes from God and therefor God is evil, I guess I could follow you logic on that. But I doubt that's what you're saying...

The sorting out of mental illness and guilt is for a judge and jury to decide. If The murderer is found mentally ill (which is rare) that usually means they go to a prison mental hospital instead of a regular prison. Either way, they can't do it again.

hedge wrote:"The use of guns was essential to colonial life in hunting for food, fighting Indians and, eventually, fighting the British. The gun culture was enshrined in the Constitution not for hunting but for self defense and an insurance policy against tyranny."

Are you suggesting that guns were used primarily for self defense against indians?

Yes, the colonists used guns for offense against the Indians too. That was wrong. Not much we can do about that today, unless you'd like to find a Native American, give your house to him, and move back to whatever country your ancestors came from.

"I'd like for you to move back to whatever country your ancestors came from - hedge"

Beat you to it.

"Mental illness seems to be the common denominator on most of the mass murderers."

"The sorting out of mental illness and guilt is for a judge and jury to decide. If The murderer is found mentally ill (which is rare) that usually means they go to a prison mental hospital"

So is it rare or is it the common denominator of most mass murderers?

The presence of mental illness is common in mass murders.

The plea of "not guilty by reason of insanity" is frequently tried, but almost never gets the defendant off the hook, from what I hear. If the court finds them crazy, they still get locked up for life (or at least a VERY long time), just in a different type of prison.

John Hinckley shot Reagan in '81, was found not guilty by reason of insanity, and he is only now being let out. His verdict triggered so much outrage that the laws governing the insanity defense were re-written to make them even less likely to succeed.

"I wish you were locked up for a long period of time" - hedge.

Beat you to it.

Are you going to address the issue of "evil is evil" as it relates to seemingly evil deeds done by insane people (which could actually lead to a somewhat interesting discussion), or are you just going to continue to cite known and rather banal facts about the legal system?

The parishioners of Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston are amazing and demonstrate Christ-likeness in their grace toward the killer. I don't think many of us would be as forgiving.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:

Professor Tiger wrote:I'm just going to express sorrow and pray for the victims and families of the Charleston church shooting, and leave the politics out of that horrible tragedy. Some things are more important than politics.

Politics/race were very important to the killer and are central to his motive soooooo...at what point would you be willing to have a discussion about it?

Not yet.

sardis wrote:The parishioners of Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston are amazing and demonstrate Christ-likeness in their grace toward the killer. I don't think many of us would be as forgiving.

Agreed. Those parishioners are incredible mirrors of Jesus.

What is Toe a mirror of?