The Goat Pen

Yep. More clutch than Brady, that's for sure. But so is Joe Flacco, for that matter.

Flacco is so 'clutch', he has led his team to how many Super Bowls?

thanks for playing, Hack.

"Tom Brady: the greatest NFL team ever!"

let's see, the Patriots had the second-worst defense in the league, kicked the second-fewest field goals, and were the 16th best rushing attack in the league.

what units of the team, what parts of the roster are you identifying as so 'great', that they carried Brady to the playoffs?

Arguing with you is like chasing a chicken around the yard. Flacco has proven himself to be better than Brady, because he beat him head-to-head in the playoffs. That's the only logical conclusion that can be made using your own reasoning.

then, following your twisted logic, Brady is better than Peyton due to the repeated head-to-head wins in the playoffs?

thanks for playing, Hack...

did enjoy opening Sports Illustrated last week and seeing the article profiling Brady, giving background on why he has developed into the 'clutch performer of his generation'.

high praise, especially from an objective source.

dave_rickart wrote:"Tom Brady: the greatest NFL team ever!"

let's see, the Patriots had the second-worst defense in the league, kicked the second-fewest field goals, and were the 16th best rushing attack in the league.

what units of the team, what parts of the roster are you identifying as so 'great', that they carried Brady to the playoffs?

Hold up a sec...are you seriously going to start citing regular season stats now to support your argument?

lol

dave_rickart wrote:then, following your twisted logic, Brady is better than Peyton due to the repeated head-to-head wins in the playoffs?

thanks for playing, Hack...

It's not my logic, its your's. You're arguing with yourself.

Hacksaw, the batman of Peyton.

again, five years running, Hack still misses the point.

No, I understand your "points" just fine...

When the Patriots win playoff games and SB championships, that is clear proof that Brady is a better QB than Mannning.

When the Colts win playoff games and a SB, dismiss it.

When the Patriots lose playoff games, dismiss it.

When other teams with clearly inferior QBs win playoff games (especially when its against Brady and the Pats), ignore it.

When regular season stats are used as examples that hurt your argument, dismiss them. When you have regular season stats that you think support your argument, shamelessly tout them.

When Brady is out with an injury and the Pats chug right along with his backup, without seeming to miss a beat, make excuses. When they win FEWER games his first year back than they did with his backup playing the previous season, completely ignore it.

When Manning is out with an injury and his team goes immediately from a perennial contender to the worst team in the league, make more excuses.

When any sensible person who has ever played, coached or followed football as a fan will tell you that it is perhaps the ultimate TEAM sport -- and that TEAMS win games and championships, not individiual players -- insist on being perhaps the only person on the planet who stubbornly insists on arguing to the contrary.

You need a cape.

again, your post just confirms you miss the point.

I judge a quarterback based on his decision-making, ability to protect the football, and -- most imporantly -- play his best in the postseason.

no volume of regular-season stats is going to change that. your arguments are always steered towards 'large volume' and regular-season games...trying to avoid the actual discussion - which is the postseason.

given Peyton's history of one-and-dones, I can see why you avoid the topic....

Actually, I think its a fair point. Of course, playoff performances matter. I just disagree that it's the only thing that matters. I also think it's obvious that the team around you dictates how well you'll perform as a QB. Brady has been the beneficiary of playing on the dominant team of his era under the best coach of his era. Of course he has played well in the playoffs. What is his record in games where he has been pressured and when the Pats' defense hasn't played well? How many of his SB rings are a result of the "tuck rule" game, cheating and having a great kicker -- or the other team having a bad kicker? Way too many factors beyond his control to act as if winning playoff games is the be-all and end-all criteria of what makes a great QB.

I also disagree that Peyton has always played terribly in the playoffs. He has a SB ring that I recall you saying he would never have. You were wrong about that. You're wrong about a lot of things.

let's see, Brady in the Super Bowls has:

1) Score tied, 1:21 to go, ball on his own 15, no timeouts - leads his team right down the field for the game-winning score.

2) Score tied, 1:08 to go - leads his team right down the field for the game-winning score

3) Turned Deion Branch into a Super Bowl MVP

4) With his team behind in the fourth quarter, ball on his own 20, leads an 80-yard touchdown drive to give his team the lead with 2:42 to go. (yes, the defense gave the lead back, but the guy turned in his THIRD Super Bowl scoring drive in in the final minutes).

That's what separates him from, say, a QB that hits Tracy Porter right in the numbers with the game on the line.

Again, you want to cherry-pick examples that fit your argument, rather than looking at the whole picture. So let's look at the whole picture. Peyton has played horribly in the playoffs, while Brady has been the greatest ever, right? To hear you tell it, the difference is night and day. And so, since you don't want to acknowledge regular season stats, let's look at their playoff stats:

Brady (20 games): Compl. - 450, Attempts - 716 (62.8%), 4770 yards, 36 TDs, 17 INTs, Rating - 89.1, 6.66 yds/attempt, 2 rushing TDs

Peyton (19 games): Compl. - 453, Attempts - 718 (63.1%), 5389 yards, 29 TDs, 19 INTs, Rating - 88.4, 7.51 yds/attempt 3 rushing TDs

Decisive? Not hardly. The biggest difference is TD/INT ratio. And it is not all that big a difference. In fact, their passer ratings (which are strongly influenced by TD/INT ratio) are within 1 point. Peyton has a better passer completion percentage and six football fields more passing yardage in one fewer game. He has rushed for 1 more TD than Brady.

And I guarantee you that the regular season statistical comparison is a lot more lopsided (in Peyton's favor) than these playoff stats.

And don't ever forget that those stats are what they are despite Brady playing on the dominant team of his era (a team that had similar success the year his backup played in his place), while Peyton has played for a team that is the worst team in the league when he's not on the field.

Put that together with the mountain of statistical evidence that shows Peyton is clearly superior and it is not even arguable.

Brady's team won seven fewer games and missed the playoffs, the year he wasn't on the field.

again, i gave you examples, of Brady stepping up in the biggest moments in the sport -- clock winding down, in the Super Bowl, having to score, and delivering each time.

that's why SI dubbed him the clutch performer of his generation.

as opposed to a guy who consistently is one-n-done in the playoffs....

likewise I don't hear Brady calling out his teammates, either, after postseason failures.

I'm starting to feel sorry for Hack. Just accept it man. Peyton is great, first ballot Hall Of Famer no doubt. 100% of the vote I agree. But Brady is better. Heros and legends are made in the postseason. Peyton is 9-10. For years both teams were the 2 top teams in the AFC but when its come time to close the deal Brady gets the job done. Peyton just doesn't.