The Goat Pen

I'm pretty sure those guys will be gone, too, although I'm thinking Lowry will be the first one gone and less sure about DeRozan. Ujiri will eventually see light one way or another, has to. But by trade deadline, it'll be way too late especially in a season where so many teams will be trying to tank as season goes on. Doubly true if they still have Casey at the helm by that point cause we know how much he loves those meaningless late season wins against tank rivals by having scrubs go off.

There comes a time where you have to cut your losses and do what you must and I think that time is fast approaching for Raptors if it hasn't passed already.

One way or another, I just don't see any benefit of keeping Casey around, just doesn't fit any possible scenario. Might be the ultimate cause of failure.

You need to start your tanking tonight, ok?

20 points on 21 shots... that's what 18M gets ya. no coach in the world can coach a guy that continues to shoot when he "can't". Memphis fleeced us... .especially when they let Randolph walk (or sign for far less than he would have) because of their return.

and trust me... I want Gay to go ballastic right now.... at least he would have some value. Instead, he will probably turn it on JUST AFTER the trade deadline.... such has been his career.

Hey thanks, you guys are clearly tanking. Don't foul at the end there when the Bobcats were 50% from the line? Clearly, you didn't want to win.

How are Raptors fans feeling about Tyler Hansbrow in the early going of his new career with the team?

Hansborough has been what's expected, and most of the casual fans attending the games are giving the reactions that dot and I would have expected (they love him although he really hasn't done much except work hard).... he works hard, he's offensively limited, but he's a blue collar guy. So far I can live with him because it's been honest tough play and not dirty.

this team is destined to explode though. Gay, Lowry, and even DeMar to a lesser extent, have just been playing incredibly selfish. I hope one or two of them get injured shortly..... tank mode can still be accomplished with a good injury or two.... as long as it's not Val.

this guy is making him impossible to trade..... even if he wasn't virtually untradeable before. 29 points on 11 for 37 shooting. brutal. 17 of 62 if you add in DeRozan

there is only one guy that I have liked through these first 8 games. Even Amir and De Rozan are playing like idiots right now. selfish, selfish basketball.... Casey will be axed but that isn't the answer. This team is in need of an enema

Getting a guy who once promoted "random" offense where even your own guy doesn't know what he's supposed to be running outta here is part of the answer. Not to get more wins, don't want that this year anyway, but at least to develop our assets properly. Namely Valanciunas.

Casey's small ball strategy is ridiculously ineffective and yet he insists on it even when Valanciunas is having a good night. Should also be clear by now that Casey's offensive strategy just plain sucks, that is, even if he actually has one. And that no-fouls strategy against Charlotte was ridiculous unless the purpose was to beat your tank rival.

Looks like Ujiri's wait-and-see approach is backfiring big time on him on all parts. DeRozan and Gay has been one of the most inefficient wing duos ever (at least that I've seen) and his coach is proving all the naysayers correct. Time is coming where he's either got to get the situation under control and act as quickly as possible to salvage what he can or it's going to spiral out of control. I don't care if they become the worst team in the NBA before deadline, if you keep the roster and coach intact beyond it, they are gonna get those meaningless wins and get you nowhere fast.

This is by far the worst season ever personally as a Raptors fan. Worse than last season when I knew beginning from offseason, it was doomed. Especially since we brought in a guy who everyone thought knew what he was doing. I'll gladly eat my words if things change but I don't have my hopes up. I can already see Ujiri era going down like Colangelo's.

I dont understand your angst Yoss

fans are acting like a deal is on Masai's table where he can trade our junk for a bunch of 1st rounders.. or superstars... or a combination of both

no such deal is on the table and until Masai learns the ability to Obi Wan-Yoda some weak minded GM it's not going to take place

I just googled the Melo trade to confirm what I remember, that trade happened in February and Melo asked out the previous summer. Masai practiced patience and waited for the best deal, it's still November so I'm not sure what you expect

being the 4th seed sets us up for being playoff Cannon fodder and now Chicago has lost D. Rose, so be it.. so we maybe even more locked in to a playoff spot

the best play is to keep winning & sell high on Derozan/Gay/Lowry at some point then collect picks and throw big minutes at Valanciunas & Ross

sotola wrote:Hansborough has been what's expected, and most of the casual fans attending the games are giving the reactions that dot and I would have expected (they love him although he really hasn't done much except work hard).... he works hard, he's offensively limited, but he's a blue collar guy. So far I can live with him because it's been honest tough play and not dirty.
.

Can he spell "acorn" yet? does he know his ABC's? Is his mom fucking a Raptors exec yet so she can ride on the corporate jet? Does he know he can no longer lower his shoulder and charge to the basket and get a +one? Has he been told he only has two steps with the basketball, not five? he has a degree from U*NC, can he spell "cat"? If you spot him the R, the P, The T and the R, can he spell Raptors? Does the local ACLU petition games because collage graduates with sub 30 IQ's shouldnt be taken advantage of?

Have the Raptors taught him how to balance a checkbook?

lol.... I guess he's not getting a Christmas card from you next month, is he?

Hansbrow makes more in a week than Auggie makes in a year, I guess he's bitter...

But I can read. So I have that going for me. Which is nice.

That's about the worst case scenario I can think of Dot.

You are talking forfeiting the grand prize of top 5 2014 pick, backing into playoffs not of our own merit but at the expense of others who are worse than they thought this year or are tanking, and working off of a core of limited value while capped out and near luxury tax with no cap flexibility.

You talk of chasing fool's gold that would be snatched right in front of our eyes as shortly as this season once NY and Brooklyn decide to wake up, or surely in a few years once East normalizes again. This is pretty much what happened to Colangelo and his team, hence my comment that Ujiri will end up like Colangelo with difference being, Ujiri doesn't have a father that could net him another job a few years after he gets fired.

And really, if we were going to just go with the flow with current roster... what was the point of hiring a new guy and doing an overhaul of the front office?

"fans are acting like a deal is on Masai's table where he can trade our junk for a bunch of 1st rounders.. or superstars... or a combination of both"

I do not see that at all. Granted, there are just too many threads and messages on RealGM that talk about same thing over and over for me to keep track of them all but from what I can gather, that's not what's going on at all. The direct return on any trade of Lowry/Gay/DeRozan really isn't the focus here.

I don't know what kind of sell-high scenario you have in mind for Lowry/DeRozan/Gay but anything we could get back in return for them cannot be better long-term than a top 5 2014 pick, which is what we should be after with as many as 4 being talked about as possible #1 (Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Exum) in what is said to be the strongest since 2003 draft. To me, our guys have limited value and we have little flexibility at near luxury tax, we shouldn't be looking at the direct return in a trade as the main focus. That's the wrong way of looking at things. The focus should be what we get as byproduct for trading them and putting the team in position to be able to obtain the top 5 pick in 2014 draft. I believe some cap flexibility should be attainable to but everything else, young prospects, draft picks, etc. should be viewed as bonus and should not make or break any deals at all. And I see a lot of fans viewing this similarly.

Having said that, the decision should have been made and acted upon in the offseason, the perfect opportunity being when Detroit reportedly offered expirings for Rudy Gay. Ujiri of course subsequently blew it and decided on this BS wait & see approach. Should've and kinda did see this coming once we entered the season with the same roster minus Bargnani, which is the cause of growing frustration. The least they could've done was trade Lowry, which should be easy enough with his reasonable expiring contract and his high value as backup PG and would've bought us some time until we, as you say, sell high on Gay and DeRozan. They didn't even do that. Instead of controlling our own destiny, we are left at the mercy of the core that we ultimately don't even want around in Lowry/DeRozan/Gay. What makes me the most skeptical of Ujiri above all is the decision to keep Casey around who proved to be ultimate failure at both the tank (2012) and winning (2013). And of course, this season so far has turned out even worse than I suspected with us at #1 in the division currently.

Anyway, we have one big day coming up in Dec 15 which is when all FA's signed in offseason can be traded. I still have small hope that Ujiri can make me eat my words and prove capable of making big decisions and not afraid to take charge instead of going with the flow. But I have my doubts. A lot of them. Because by then, it may just be too late to catch up with a number of teams tanking outright, and there will be growing voices that are happy to just keep status quo, afraid of tanking.

"But I can read. So I have that going for me."

Good, so you'll be able to read it when they report Hansbrow's 5 year/$25 million contract when this one runs out...

Seriously? You have to go all the way to Toronto to keep up this gay ass fight?

And from a post made weeks ago to boot. Dude doesn't have much of a life...

hedge wrote:"But I can read. So I have that going for me."

Good, so you'll be able to read it when they report Hansbrow's 5 year/$25 million contract when this one runs out...

Time stamp: TODAY !!!