The Goat Pen

While it could be argued that Kennedy had the opportunity to leave Vietnam in 1963, it is difficult to find a date at which it could be argued that Johnson had a similar opportunity. In defense of Kennedy, the US had invested nearly a decade of monetary aide, men and materials in the Saigon regime by 1963. Most importantly of all, the US had invested its credibility in 'nation building' - something that had not been the case under Truman or until Eisenhower rejected the Geneva Accords in 1954. According to historian David Anderson, 'the Eisenhower adminstration trapped itself and its successors into a commitment to the survival of its own counterfeit creation,' the new 'state of South Vietnam.

Thus Eisenhower's rejection of the Geneva Accords and his 'nation building' in South Vietnam constituted the greatest turning point in the US involvement in Vietnam, the point of no return. The turning point is a microcosm of the reasons why the US got involved and why the US was unsuccessful in Vietnam. That small country was not seen as a nation in its own right and with its own aspirations. Instead, it was seen after the Korean War, as the place where communism had to be stopped. Vietnam was a victim of the Cold War.

Basically Sardis, the French got whipped and left Vietnam in '54 and our involvement could have ended right there. The Geneva Accords formalized the French exit, and declared there would be a unified Vietnam in '56 with nationwide elections. Eisenhower knew Ho Chi Min would win 80% of the vote and Vietnam would go communist, so he instituted the Republic of South Vietnam and installed Ngo Dinh Diem as Prime Minister...after giving his famous "Domino Theory" speech. Eisenhower thumbed his nose at the Geneva settlements and cast the die for our tragic involvement in that patch of SE Asia for the next 20 years.

Any of that have a familiar ring to it fer ya?

You had a tape of two Presidents agreeing that 1965 was different than 1955 and that military force needed to commence in 1965. Did Eisenhower support South Vietnam? Yes, did he occupy? No. 395 advisors is not an occupation by any reasonable definition.

Don't confuse tick with facts...he might pee his panties...

sardis wrote:You had a tape of two Presidents agreeing that 1965 was different than 1955 and that military force needed to commence in 1965. Did Eisenhower support South Vietnam? Yes, did he occupy? No. 395 advisors is not an occupation by any reasonable definition.

Support it???? Hell, Ike INVENTED it. And he hand-picked it's leader, and he built it up with materials, men, and money. And while he was building up the south, up north Ho Chi Min was arming and building towards a unification. You know how that turned out, right?

Yep...I watched Good Morning Vietnam. Was a shame they fired Adrian Cronauer like that...

It's a shame you are still breathing.

We now pause this debate over whether 395 soldiers is an occupying army to consider this:

http://news.investors.com/article/61723 ... -obama.htm

Disability Ranks Outpace New Jobs In Obama Recovery

More workers joined the federal government's disability program in June than got new jobs, according to two new government reports, a clear indicator of how bleak the nation's jobs picture is after three full years of economic recovery.

The economy created just 80,000 jobs in June, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday. But that same month, 85,000 workers left the workforce entirely to enroll in the Social Security Disability Insurance program, according to the Social Security Administration.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

When the folks who pay no fed income taxes reached 55%-60% we are well and truly fucked. We're right close to 50% now.

Pay nothing in and receive thousands upon thousands in benefits back. Pretty good deal for them. Dependency is always the Dem endgame.

The stupid part about all this is the econ is in the tank and job growth (which should be booming in a recovery) is flat because of two reasons: Opramacare and Taxageddon.

There isn't a business in this country that knows what their costs going forward are going to be. What their taxes will be, what it will cost for the employees they already have, what it will cost to hire new ones, the unknown regulations from the 159 boards for Opramacare are a fire hose on any spark in the economy.

Its called UNCERTAINTY and until that is brought back to a reasonable, normal level, (Thanks Roberts you FUCK) people are not going to hire and people are going to reign in spending. Make the tax cuts permanent and erase Opramacare and instead of a fire hose you will be spreading gasoline on economic activity and job growth would be in the 250k+ a month for a long time.

Anyway team Oprama said it would be 5.6% at this point...

June jobs swoon: America’s labor market depression continues

[img2]http://www.aei-ideas.org/wp-content/upl ... 77x338.jpg[/img2]

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/june-j ... continues/

And kudos to a prez who has done more to combat AIDS/HIV than anybody else...

George and Laura Bush spend Fourth of July in Zambia, opening health clinic, visiting orphanage...

http://www.voanews.com/content/george-b ... 63615.html

Brian Padden
July 04, 2012

LUSAKA — Former President George W. Bush has kept a relatively low profile in the United States since leaving office. But in Africa this week he is publicly promoting his institute's initiative to prevent and treat cervical cancer. While Bush is following a familiar post-presidential path in supporting humanitarian causes, he would prefer to focus on quiet service, to lead through example and hard work.

He worked alongside other volunteers in Kabwe - Zambia's second-largest city - to renovate a health clinic which specializes in the early detection and treatment of cervical cancer.

“You're always the former president but I wanted to come here as a laborer...I do want to say that on this particular trip that myself and friends have left behind a clinic and hope to inspire others to come and refurbish clinics as well,” Bush said.

Bush is helping lead the fight against cervical cancer in his post-presidential years and has so far helped raise more than $85 million. But he is a reluctant public spokesman for the cause and says he would prefer to contribute outside the media spotlight.

“I hope you don't see much of it because I don't want to be in the news. In other words, I believe that quiet service is the best kind of service,” he said.

In Zambia, Bush and his wife Laura also visited an orphanage where many of the children were born with HIV. The children are alive today because of President Bush's 2003 AIDS initiative in Africa that provided billions of dollars for retroviral drugs and treatment. It is an emotional tour full of hugs and picture taking.

“I believe freedom is important for peace and I believe one aspect of freedom is people to be free from disease. And so Laura and I are very much involved in this initiative,” Bush said.

While Bush may prefer that his good work go unnoticed, he is following a familiar path that has helped refurbish the public image of other recent former presidents.

Former president Bill Clinton left office under a cloud for his affair with a White House intern. But his involvement in good causes - like joining former president George Herbert Walker Bush to raise money for Asian tsunami relief in 2005 - helped rehabilitate his public image.

Allan Lichtman, a history professor at American University, notes former president Jimmy Carter was not re-elected for another term, losing the 1980 election in a landslide. But he says Carter is now held high esteem by many for his work in promoting democracy and eradicating guinea worm disease.

“Most observers believe that he was a much more successful former president than he was president of the United States, and of course was ultimately rewarded for all of this post-presidential activity with the Nobel Peace Prize,” Lichtman said.

In his post-presidential years George W. Bush seems be finding his role in quiet service and seems genuinely unconcerned about his place in history.

Uh oh, George Bush is occupying Zambia...

Professor Tiger wrote:We now pause this debate over whether 395 soldiers is an occupying army to consider this:

http://news.investors.com/article/61723 ... -obama.htm

Disability Ranks Outpace New Jobs In Obama Recovery

More workers joined the federal government's disability program in June than got new jobs, according to two new government reports, a clear indicator of how bleak the nation's jobs picture is after three full years of economic recovery.

The economy created just 80,000 jobs in June, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday. But that same month, 85,000 workers left the workforce entirely to enroll in the Social Security Disability Insurance program, according to the Social Security Administration.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

Fucking Bain!

It's simple. Anything sold in America that was built with less than 80% American product gets taxed 75%. Built with entirely American parts, what ever your countys sales tax is. The key is bringing back all those jobs sent overseas. If companies that claim to be American and base themselves here are screwing out Americans from getting jobs by finding cheaper labor in India or wherever are they really American companies? Do they really care about America?

I will never vote for Romney. Ever. I would vote for puter over him. And we all know puter would gather about 8 votes nationally.

America doesn't need a phony rich guy who has played "The Game". They need someone who actually cares about his country and not his checkbook. I'm not saying Obama is Jesus. He's not although it's hard to fight someone with a hand tied to your back belt loop. But no matter who wins, until we stop this TMZ dirt shit & infighting because someone lost and focus on the people, we're not going anywhere no matter who is in charge.

That's why I hate politics so much. It's all about you and less about US as a country. We've lost the 1946 feeling.

Pretty much sums it up.

Fire every damn one of 'em and start the fuck over.

Wow...from Yahoo!...aren't they part of the omedia?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obam ... 29360.html

Line seems to be working.

10ac wrote:Line seems to be working.

Yep, they have all their minions reporting it in the MSM. Like I have previously stated the DNC and the MSM are one and the same.

1. Looks like opening AIDS clinics in Africa will be to W what Habitat for Humanity is to Carter.

2. I doubt I'll vote for Romney either. Maybe I'll write in Ron Paul. Who's the Libertarian candidate? That's how I voted last time.

GBJs wrote:Wow...from Yahoo!...aren't they part of the omedia?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obam ... 29360.html

Don't forget, this is an all time top ten prez in intellect and imagination.