Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[bluetick]

What can I expect with "Obamneycare"?

Costs rising even faster than before. Caregivers and hospitals getting paid less per procedure, so they will have to make up in volume, which will mean you get 3 minutes with your doctor when you visit. Fewer doctors entering the profession and PA's and NP's taking over a lot more primary care. Less choice in doctors and fewer standard procedures covered. More regulations, restrictions, etc. More lawsuits with rules of evidence stacked in favor of plaintiffs. More elderly forced out of Medicare and onto ObamaRomneyRobertscare. More and more sick old people being sent home to die with no recourse.

And then, widespread calls by liberal politicians that the only way to fix the health care crisis (caused by Bush) is to go for single payer, which was the plan all along.

Where do you get this stuff? Less choice in doctors...fewer standard procedures...sick old people sent home to die with no recourse?

You didn't get that from robamaneycare in MA, did you?

[bluetick]

Romneycare's 98% Success Rate Defies Gripes on Obama's Law - Bloomberg

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-2 ... a-law.html

A 2011 poll by the Boston Globe and Harvard School of Public Health showed that 63 percent of Massachusetts residents supported the state law. The U.S. law has an approval rate of 41 percent, and an unfavorabe view by 41 percent of those surveyed, according to a monthly tracking poll by Kaiser.

The Massachusetts law has "turned out to be a success," said David Cutler, an economics professor at Harvard University in Cambridge who helped policy makers draw up the law, in a telephone interview. " People have gotten coverage. They got coverage at the rate we thought, and at the cost we thought."

[bluetick]

No Budget Buster

One reason Romneycare hasn't been successfully attacked is because it hasn't had the budget-busting effects opponents had predicted, said Glen Shor, executive director of the Commenwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority, in a telephone interview.

"There were concerns that there would be spriraling spending and out-of-control cost overruns," said Shor, whose authority was set up by the law to offer state-subsidized coverage to those below a certain income level. "That has just eminently not been the case at all."

The rate the state pays insurers to offer subsidized coverage has grown at no more than 3 percent, and more businesses are offering health coverage instead of dropping it to let workers sign up with the state, he said.

[Professor Tiger]

Where do you get this stuff? Less choice in doctors...fewer standard procedures...sick old people sent home to die with no recourse?

You didn't get that from robamaneycare in MA, did you?

From http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... aw-worked/

The mandate that requires all state residents to carry health insurance has also proved to be effective. About 97 percent of taxpayers are complying with that requirement.

The law, however, has failed to curb rising costs. While implementation of the law itself didn’t put a major dent in the state’s budget – according to an analysis by independent group Massachusetts Taxpayer Foundation, the increase in net spending for the law was just 1 percent in fiscal year 2010 – it hasn’t reduced overall costs for policy holders.

Private spending per member grew by 15.5 percent on average between 2006 and 2008. Meanwhile, average premiums for full insurance increased 12.2 percent from 2006 to 2008, according to the Massachusetts Division of Health Care Finance and Policy.

The median health insurance premium for a policy holder in Massachusetts was $442 in 2009, a 21 percent jump from 2005. Meanwhile, employers’ share of premiums fell in the same time period.

Bankruptcy filings due to medical costs have also jumped, increasing by more than one-third between 2007 and 2009, according to analysis published in The American Journal of Medicine in March.

Rising costs continue to pose a challenge for the state. A survey published by Blue Cross Blue Shield Massachusetts Foundation in April found that per capita health care spending in Massachusetts is projected to nearly double by 2020.

Small businesses also have yet to see the full benefits of the law. Like the national law, the state insurance exchanges were meant to give small businesses a choice of finding cheaper health alternatives, but that hasn’t happened yet. Premiums charged to small businesses since 2006 have risen faster than average, growing by 5.8 percent from 2006 to 2008, compared to a 4.8 percent growth for mid-size companies.

[Professor Tiger]

How can anybody seriously think that this:

http://therealrevo.com/blog/wp-content/ ... echart.jpg

... will make health care less expensive and more efficient?

Nobody in their right mind has ever looked at UPS or FEDEX and said, "These companies would be SO much better if they were run by the post office."

[bluetick]

The median health insurance premium for a policy holder in Massachusetts was $442 in 2009, a 21 percent jump from 2005. Meanwhile, employers’ share of premiums fell in the same time period.

Hells bells - FIVE percent a year? If increases could be limited to 5% a year we wouldn't have a healthcare crisis. What did GBJ's wife's policy increase in 5 years...100%?

Bankruptcy filings due to medical costs have also jumped, increasing by more than one-third between 2007 and 2009, according to analysis published in The American Journal of Medicine in March.

The American Journal of Medicine would also point out that medical bankruptcies jumped in every state of the union during that time period - something about a 'great' recession being the culprit.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Tell me one fucking program that is even 1/100th the size of this monsterosity that the feds have run properly...you can't. They fuck up anything they do. Government invlovement just fucks up market forces. Thats it folks. Tell me how 'rent control" in NYC has helped the people...tell me...did it actually curb costs in the long run? Did it improve quality? Did it make it more available?

Wake up people. Obamacare is pure bullshit.

[bluetick]

Tell me one fucking program that is even 1/100th the size of this monsterosity that the feds have run properly...you can't. They fuck up anything they do. Government invlovement just fucks up market forces. Thats it folks. Tell me how 'rent control" in NYC has helped the people...tell me...did it actually curb costs in the long run? Did it improve quality? Did it make it more available?

Wake up people. Obamacare is pure bullshit.

Rent control in NYC is not a federal program.

Obamacare is not a federal program. It's a series of laws that features, among other things, the mandate that everyone participates in our mostly-corporate healthcare system, with tighter regulations on said corporate healthcare system. The government does not 'run' private health insurors, hospitals, physicians and healthcare providers, pharma and medical equipment manufacturers.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Obamacare isn't a federal program? Really?

Never said rent control was a federal program...my point was there are similarities in many of these things that by their very nature are flawed because they fuck with the free market. Both rent control and the Affordable Care Act attempt to control costs and make a something more affordable to people. Neither will or ever will work. Look at Medicaid. Look at the VA System. Look at price controls of any commodity. They don't work. They make things worse. It's a fact. Bleeding heart liberals have had how many years of The Great Society and can you say it has produced results? Of course not. But they will always dupe the American people into thinking they are "compassionate" in their hearts...they "tried" to make it better. Nevermind that the results are never there. Doesn't matter. Results are for cold hearted pricks like conservatives. Damn them.

[Big Orange Junky]

Tell me one fucking program that is even 1/100th the size of this monsterosity that the feds have run properly...you can't. They fuck up anything they do. Government invlovement just fucks up market forces. Thats it folks. Tell me how 'rent control" in NYC has helped the people...tell me...did it actually curb costs in the long run? Did it improve quality? Did it make it more available?

Wake up people. Obamacare is pure bullshit.

Rent control in NYC is not a federal program.

Obamacare is not a federal program. It's a series of laws that features, among other things, the mandate that everyone participates in our mostly-corporate healthcare system, with tighter regulations on said corporate healthcare system. The government does not 'run' private health insurors, hospitals, physicians and healthcare providers, pharma and medical equipment manufacturers.

Tick the attack on private practice and physician owned hospitals is in full swing with this administration. They have outlawed physician owned hospitals even though they have better outcomes and better patient satisfaction, but alas they are now illegal. They are going after the ones that were grandfathered in as well, trying to put them into bankruptcy so there will be less of them to push back.

As for where some of this stuff is coming from, even Opramas own docs that supported this mess wrote the other day that physicians must now get used to settling for "steep cuts in reimbursements in exchage for much more volume".

Yes that's what's coming.

[Professor Tiger]

After a generation of Democrats scaring senior citizens every election screaming '"THE REPUBLICANS WILL CUT YOUR MEDICARE! THE REPUBLICANS WILL CUT YOUR MEDICARE!," Obamacare cuts medicare by $500 billion. If Republicans had done that, the Democrats would have burned down Washington DC.

[Jungle Rat]

But they didn't so "if" is nothing more than an opinion.

[GBJs]

I'd like to hear the puter/prof plan that will stop GBJ's wife's insurance policy from doubling again in five years under our current deeply-flawed healthcare system.

The median health insurance premium for a policy holder in Massachusetts was $442 in 2009, a 21 percent jump from 2005. Meanwhile, employers’ share of premiums fell in the same time period.

Hells bells - FIVE percent a year? If increases could be limited to 5% a year we wouldn't have a healthcare crisis. What did GBJ's wife's policy increase in 5 years...100%?

Bankruptcy filings due to medical costs have also jumped, increasing by more than one-third between 2007 and 2009, according to analysis published in The American Journal of Medicine in March.

The American Journal of Medicine would also point out that medical bankruptcies jumped in every state of the union during that time period - something about a 'great' recession being the culprit.

I'm all for hearing ANYONE's plan to stop the upward spiral of the money I pay in insurance. I understand price increases and I know the companies are going to make a profit. (EVEN THOUGH BCBS used to be a mutual...)I don't think Obamney's plan has said anything about stopping it so far. It's very good insurance. $1500 deductable with 100% insurance afterwards. Very large group of physicians / providers to choose from. Don't have to see family doc before I go to a specialist. But the price increases are bull shit. Now I wil say we've used the insurance. I kept COBRA coverage when I left Publix until I became elligible for group coverage at Flightstar and had that insurance policy in place before removing her from our group coverage so there hasn't been an insurance lapse.

C'mon Tick. You work in the insurance industry. What do you or any of the MED guys see occurring.

[GBJs]

After a generation of Democrats scaring senior citizens every election screaming '"THE REPUBLICANS WILL CUT YOUR MEDICARE! THE REPUBLICANS WILL CUT YOUR MEDICARE!," Obamacare cuts medicare by $500 billion. If Republicans had done that, the Democrats would have burned down Washington DC.

Burning those bastards out and starting over sounds pretty damn good. i don't want to overthrow the government we have. I think it's the best model in the world. But I'd sure like to fire all the sumbiches up there right now. </Gallagher parody>

[Jungle Rat]

Been saying that for awhile now

[Dr. Strangelove]

End all welfare programs. Tear down VA hospitals. Let the poor find work on their own. The market WILL PROVIDE. Hasn't that been proven by history? Oh, how every true American wishes it were 1888 again.

[Dr. Strangelove]

And a very happy Independence Day to you all. Let us never forget why we remember this day

[youtube]l31UUl5SyXk[/youtube]

[THE_WIZARD_]

Fuck liberty. I want cradle to grave welfare. Big Daddy Goverment knows best and will provide for us.

Thank God in 1776 our forefathers didn't listen to DSL and told the Brits to kiss their asses.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Happy 4th DSL!

[Dr. Strangelove]

Yer in da B1G now, Wiz. Try ta act wit a lil more class an' dignity, see?

Have a good holiday!