Florida State Seminoles

[hedge]

"The group, named Citadel, intends to purchase 2,000 to 3,000 acres for the project in western Idaho. The community will comprise of 3,500 to 7,000 families of patriotic Americans who "voluntarily choose to live together in accordance with Thomas Jefferson's ideal of Rightful Liberty."

According to the Citadel website, Rightful Liberty means that "neighbors keep their noses out of other neighbors' business, that neighbors live and let live.""

Boy, that sounds like a great idea, let's get 7000 people together to buy a few thousand acres of land so we can cram ourselves together and stay out of each others business. Why not just buy 5 acres of your own land away from everybody? Seems like that would make it easier to mind your own business..

I do like the sentiment of "minding one's own business", though. I think I read somewhere that that is what Benjamin Franklin proposed as the national motto: Mind your own business. I wish we had adopted that...

[Owlman]

If it were just for people under Federal command, it would be the only amendment of the original Bill of Rights where the authors were granting a right to the President or Federal Government. The rest, I, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, and IX all granted rights only to citizens, and X granted rights only to citizens and individual states

It's not for people under federal command. That is not what I said. The right to control the militias is part of the Constitution that existed before the Second Amendment was written. In exercising that right, the feds cannot infringe the citizen from bearing arms (thus granting a right to the citizen). On the other hand, Amendment 10 did not grant any rights to the citizens or the states but restated the fundamental relationship between the feds and the states, namely that the feds may only operate under powers granted to them by the Constitution. No specific rights were granted under the 10th Amendment. Only during the widely discredited Lochner era (1890 to 1937) and after (1995 San Antonio) did the 10 Amendment mean that there were specific rights were included under the 10 Amendment. Not true for the majority of our country.

As for the Citadel? People forget that we are a dual sovereignty country. That means that both the state and the feds have sovereignty over every piece of land in this country (exception to federal, native American and territories). That can go to Idaho all they want, they still are under the sovereignty of that state and the federal govt. They still have to pay taxes to the feds and the state, they still have to follow all state rules on how they property is used, they still have to pay state taxes, etc. If they truly want to be left alone, leave the country.

[Owlman]

Ultimately, the vast and overwhelming majority of this country believe in limiting the scope of the second Amendment, which doesn't use the word guns or firearms. The argument is where the limits should be.

[hedge]

"If they truly want to be left alone, leave the country."

Yeah, if they don't want the government messing with them, they should move to north Korea...

[AlabamAlum]

I am okay with some limits on guns. The ones we have now, for example. I do, however, believe that frog-in-gradually-heated water incrementalism is a real thing. And it's not just with guns. I disagree with the people who believe violent video games and movies should be restricted further as a response to the shootings, or the Patriot Act needs more teeth for the terrorism crowd. Or the continued muddling and weakening of the fourth amendment because of drugs, terrorism (whatever).

In some ways we're less free than we were in 1900 in this country. Where we'll be in 2100 is a concern.

[Owlman]

I'm okay with some limits on guns. High magazine and assault weapons, no guns for previous felons, background checks on ALL sales.

My sister in law monitored her stepson's facebook page (without him knowing). He was threatening (when he was 16) to go and shoot up a bunch of kids in the school. Her husband and her turned him in.

[Owlman]

In some ways we are much more free than 1900. No desire to go back in history.

[AlabamAlum]

Of course, in some ways we are more free now, and no I don't want to go back in history. That's not what I was saying. Simply, that we must be vigilant to protect, affirm and support freedoms whenever we can, lest freedoms, in general, slowly slip away. Limiting current freedoms should be a incredibly difficult process, replete with debates, arguments, and being put before a vote.

[eCat]

Ultimately, the vast and overwhelming majority of this country believe in limiting the scope of the second Amendment

if we are talking about buying tanks or belt fed machine guns or the ability to purchase for criminals or the mentally ill, then yes

semi-auto rifles and pistols? no, I don't believe the majority believe in limiting it for the standard citizen

That's the slippery slope that the NRA has been fighting against for years - because once you sign up for any serious gun control then it will never be enough. Shapiro pointed out the hypocrisy of that in the Piers Morgan interview. 99% of gun homicides are committed with guns that won't ever be banned unless we eliminate all handguns. If any reasonable person is serious about eliminating gun related deaths, then that has to be their ultimate goal - and the vast majority of Americans are overwhelmingly against that.

Otherwise this is just an exercise in futility to prevent the deaths of 200 people a year in the United States - and there is no guarantee those deaths wouldn't even be eliminated because a shooter could just as easily carry two guns or one gun with multiple clips.

The gun control advocates fall back to "so we can't talk about any gun control?" and the answer should be - we should talk about what causes a person to want to go kill 20 children in a school. Its not because he has access to high capacity firearms.

[eCat]

"The first Seattle gun buyback will be from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Jan. 26, under Interstate 5 between Cherry and James streets. Anyone who turns in weapons will receive up to a $100 gift card in exchange for handguns, shotguns and rifles, and a $200 gift card in exchange for assault weapons"

yea, I don't think they are going to get the kind of guns they want off the streets.

[sardis]

The fact that they were able to ban handguns in England in 1997 tells me that to think there is no one in DC thinking the same thing is naive.

[hedge]

"In some ways we're less free than we were in 1900 in this country."

There were no drug laws in 1900. I bet laudanum was great for a hangover...

[Owlman]

if we are talking about buying tanks or belt fed machine guns or the ability to purchase for criminals or the mentally ill, then yes

semi-auto rifles and pistols? no, I don't believe the majority believe in limiting it for the standard citizen

But that's the point, isn't it. Yes, limit the second Amendment. You accept it should be limited; but a debate on how much.

[AlabamAlum]

Hedge, big city opium dens, laudanum, marijauna, and cocaine in soft drinks(!)....

[eCat]

Then why don't we just define what a firearm is and then drop on this pretense about limiting them

[hedge]

"Hedge, big city opium dens, laudanum, marijauna, and cocaine in soft drinks(!)...."

The good old days indeed. Coca-Cola got its very name due to the cocaine that lent efficacy to the draught...

[eCat]

I'm watching The Untold History of the United States by Oliver Stone.

I'm watching the segment on WWII right now and they played a clip of Truman on the floor of the Senate saying "We should help the Russians if Germany is winning, and we should help Germany if the Russians are winning. We should do everything in our power to help them kill as many of each other as we can"

Can you imagine someone saying that on the floor of the senate today? No wonder Stalin wouldn't have anything to do with him.

[AlabamAlum]

There is no doubt, Harry Truman had huge brass balls.

[hedge]

"No wonder Stalin wouldn't have anything to do with him."

Yeah, but I bet he admired Truman's position as a perfect expression of realpolitik...

[hedge]

"There is no doubt, Harry Truman had huge brass balls."

He would've made a fortune in real estate....