The Goat Pen

"She needs to be more Hillary Clinton, less Lucy Ricardo"

Or more Lady MacBeth, but look how that turned out...

"yea I guess -seems the most obvious route."

Plus, I mean, at the point, what's one more murder? They were in blood stepped in so far, that should they wade no more, returning were as tedious as go o'er...

Claire turns much more evil as time goes on

another one to chjeck out that is west wing in nature is newsroom another sorkin series

hedge wrote:"She needs to be more Hillary Clinton, less Lucy Ricardo"

Or more Lady MacBeth, but look how that turned out...

I just hate writing that tries to be sophisticated but they lose their way.

Season 2 Claire would not give 2 shits about that guy committing suicide. She fucked over her lover and set him up to look like a liar on TV, She fired more than 1/2 her staff including a long time friend, she grabs the dick of a dying secret service guy - this isn't a woman who is going to let normal human emotions get in the way. OK, so I can accept they are writing her to be a character that is developing a moral compass, but then the old Claire pops up and she takes a piss in front of the Russian ambassador as a power move to get what she wants.

Plus, any sitting president would have fired his UN Ambassador in a second after getting off message about the Jordan Valley peace talks. As a political insider, she knows that. Its just not realistic with her character.

I get that they are flawed characters prone to having weakness. But let their arrogance and corruption do them in, not some moral dilemma that Claire has to work thru, Its just bad writing on what should be an outstanding show.

crashcourse wrote:Claire turns much more evil as time goes on

another one to chjeck out that is west wing in nature is newsroom another sorkin series

I really liked West Wing until the last season when Jimmy whoever was running for president. It was an idealistic viewpoint of the presidency but for network TV, I thought it was great. Also watched all of Newsroom. I felt Newsroom had much more to offer but it was cut short.

I don't know Sorkin's politics but he has a liberal viewpoint that is palatable in his writing. Of course it helps when you write a narrative that fits cleanly with your viewpoint to support it - like the Shibboleth immigration episode

I realize I get very critical of shows.

If I'm watching some reality TV mush, I don't care, I know its bad - but its also 30 minutes that I'm usually just killing time with.

If I'm watching a series, that's a commitment on my part. Put the effort in it. Quit trying to take it in a new direction or explore the character because you're bored or have run out of ideas. That's not what attracted the audience you started out with.

"I just hate writing that tries to be sophisticated but they lose their way."

Well, you don't have to worry about that in here. Well, at least not the "tries to be sophisticated" part...

"I don't know Sorkin's politics but he has a liberal viewpoint that is palatable in his writing."

You know Lawrence O'Donnell was a producer of West Wing and also wrote several episodes, right?

googling Lawrence O'Donnell

ok so he's an MSNBC guy

doesn't surprise me. West Wing predated Obama so the era of SJW hadn't started yet.

He comes on after Rachel Maddow. She warms up the audience with, IMO, solid journalism (albeit from a liberal slant) and then he come roaring in at the 10 o'clock spot slinging the red meat. It's kinda funny actually, in the same way the Tucker and Hannity are funny on the other side...

FWIW, I don't watch Tucker or Hannity

I tried to give Tucker a chance but he stacks the deck by bringing in fringe opposing views that are pretty easy to shoot down.

I haven't watched CNN, Fox or MSNBC in months

I'll watch if there is a plane crash or war though.

CNN is the shit if a plane crashes

I flip back and forth between CNN, MSNBC and Fox until the MIF and the kids can't stand it anymore. But sometimes they get drawn in by the polar opposite approach CNN and Fox are taking on any given subject. It can be entertaining...

I watch real tv.

reading more--now reading 500 days about 9/11 and bush et al good stuff

like to read kruthammers book one day--I must be old--last time I read this much it was either mad and cracked magazine

Newsroom was ok but it made journalists seem smarter than they are and Jeff Daniels is still Dumber

I loved House of Cards until Trump took office. Now real life is better than Kevin Spacey bullshit. The best part of HOC was him eating ribs for breakfast

And pushing that girl onto the tracks just as the train was roaring by. I knew HOC was going to be at least marginally interesting when in the first scene of the first show he killed his own injured dog by snapping his neck with his bare hands and then turned and spoke directly to the camera and said "it's more merciful than letting him suffer"...

It would be kinda cool if every character talked to the camera out of scene to give their view point

How would you be able to tell if they were lying or not?