innocentbystander wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:08 am
Not quite sure where to put this. Technology thread I guess. Plane crash at DC. Commercial flight and Army Black Hawk collided.
American Airlines had a regional jet, 64 people on board. Lets hope that there are survivors.
was listening to a former air traffic controller.
He thinks what happened is this - Controller tells the Apache pilot to recognize there is aircraft in their oncoming path, the pilot sees the plane to his right and acknowledges it, not realizing there is a plane flying behind him to his left. Because he is a military aircraft there is a certain amount of trust between them and the controllers in regards to flying in commercial space. That trust was betrayed.
At the moment I don't think any Air Traffic controller is at fault and while I have issues with DEI like any other sane American, I don't think now is the time to get into that, unless they have information about some underqualified ATC did something that led to the crash.
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:32 pm
by hedge
"Because he is a military aircraft there is a certain amount of trust between them and the controllers in regards to flying in commercial space. That trust was betrayed."
innocentbystander wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:08 am
Not quite sure where to put this. Technology thread I guess. Plane crash at DC. Commercial flight and Army Black Hawk collided.
American Airlines had a regional jet, 64 people on board. Lets hope that there are survivors.
was listening to a former air traffic controller.
He thinks what happened is this - Controller tells the Apache pilot to recognize there is aircraft in their oncoming path, the pilot sees the plane to his right and acknowledges it, not realizing there is a plane flying behind him to his left. Because he is a military aircraft there is a certain amount of trust between them and the controllers in regards to flying in commercial space. That trust was betrayed.
At the moment I don't think any Air Traffic controller is at fault and while I have issues with DEI like any other sane American, I don't think now is the time to get into that, unless they have information about some underqualified ATC did something that led to the crash.
It was human error. That much is clear. What is not clear (yet) is was it ATC error, American Eagle pilot error, or Black hawk helicopter pilot error? If it is DEI, then this tragedy will be politicized and sides will be drawn based only on that.
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:42 pm
by eCat
hedge wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:32 pm
"Because he is a military aircraft there is a certain amount of trust between them and the controllers in regards to flying in commercial space. That trust was betrayed."
What does this mean?
the impression I got was they give a level of freedom to military craft in commercial airspace they don't give to airlines. And in this case the "do you see the airplane in your flight path?" question was answered but he clearly did not.
Another person from the FAA was saying that major changes will occur because of this , obviously because they have to minimize the possibility of human error in any case that results in loss of life.
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:46 pm
by sardis
I’m just amazed that the last time a commercial plane crashed in the US was 2009. I can remember having about two a year back in the 80s and 90s
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 4:18 pm
by innocentbystander
sardis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:46 pm
I’m just amazed that the last time a commercial plane crashed in the US was 2009.
Sadly, this crash might be (God only knows for sure at this point) for the exact same reason as the one in 2009 near Buffalo: human error of a novice pilot flying for a regional airline because the pilot did not have enough cockpit hours yet to work for a major. He worked for PSA airlines, a regional carrier for American. The pilot had 6 years experience as a pilot of that equipment specifically.
I tend to think 6 years is more than enough to know what you are doing. 6 years of flying is a lot. So if this IS human error (and I believe it is) likely the error was the Helicopter pilot OR the Air Traffic Controller.
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 4:46 pm
by eCat
sardis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:46 pm
I’m just amazed that the last time a commercial plane crashed in the US was 2009. I can remember having about two a year back in the 80s and 90s
I also remember flying in the late 70's/early 80's and turbulence was horrible. Nowadays I fly and I don't even notice.
One flight I was on , Eastern Airlines, we hit turbulence so bad a threw a guy sitting in his seat into the aisle
At the end of the month I'm taking a long flight in coach and I'm fucking dreading it. I hate flying. The actual flight experience is pretty good. Its everything that happens to get to your seat and vice versa that is miserable.
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 4:54 pm
by innocentbystander
US Silver Medalist Nancy Kerrigan and the Boston Skating Club
Really broken up about this
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:17 pm
by Dave23
Reports are that the Black Hawk pilot had over 1000 hours, and his co-pilot over 500.
she's aged like fine leather...WTF, its like I'm Rip Van Winkle and woke up 40 years later. Is that really her?
White trash doesn't age well
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:38 pm
by Dave23
She does look like an Appalachian granny…
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:40 pm
by DooKSucks
She looks like someone you would see in Dancing Outlaw or one of the other pieces about Jesco White and his kin.
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:13 pm
by hedge
"the impression I got was they give a level of freedom to military craft in commercial airspace they don't give to airlines. And in this case the "do you see the airplane in your flight path?" question was answered but he clearly did not."
So the trust was betrayed by the helicopter pilot?
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:15 pm
by hedge
"She looks like someone you would see in Dancing Outlaw or one of the other pieces about Jesco White and his kin."
Too harsh. Look at her teeth. I ain't saying she's hot, but for mid fiddy's, she ain't all that bad (and I never thought she was attractive when she was in her prime)...
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 1:30 am
by innocentbystander
hedge wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:15 pm
"She looks like someone you would see in Dancing Outlaw or one of the other pieces about Jesco White and his kin."
Too harsh. Look at her teeth. I ain't saying she's hot, but for mid fiddy's, she ain't all that bad (and I never thought she was attractive when she was in her prime)...
Alert the press, I agree with hedge. For 55, she is not bad.
At 20, she was hot. This was the hottest she ever was.
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 1:34 am
by innocentbystander
Dave23 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:17 pm
Reports are that the Black Hawk pilot had over 1000 hours, and his co-pilot over 500.
Well, that seems like enough time to be competent. I don't know. What I do know is this is a horrible tragedy. And someone fucked up. I don't think it was the RJ pilot(s). But it could have been.
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:06 am
by eCat
hedge wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:13 pm
"the impression I got was they give a level of freedom to military craft in commercial airspace they don't give to airlines. And in this case the "do you see the airplane in your flight path?" question was answered but he clearly did not."
So the trust was betrayed by the helicopter pilot?
well yea, I mean basically the implication is they trust the pilot to be competent and handle the situation without additional hand holding
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:08 am
by eCat
hedge wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:15 pm
"She looks like someone you would see in Dancing Outlaw or one of the other pieces about Jesco White and his kin."
Too harsh. Look at her teeth. I ain't saying she's hot, but for mid fiddy's, she ain't all that bad (and I never thought she was attractive when she was in her prime)...
first thing I thought was "she's had work done on her teeth"
the second thing I thought was "I can't fap to that"
Re: MIT Engineers
Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:35 am
by hedge
"the second thing I thought was "I can't fap to that""
Well no, but if I was a few drinks in at a bar and she sat down next to me I'd chat her up...