The Goat Pen

Professor Tiger wrote:Yes, other than the fact that he is despised by the pro-life, pro-2A, anti-government-run health care (i.e. the Tea Party), Romney is a lock for the nomination.

I will concede that Romney is and ever shall be beloved by the country club Republicans and the Mormons. So he will carry Beacon Hill, Wall Street, the Hamptons, and Utah. But that's about it. Moreover, I fully expect the media will fawn all over him because he's precisely the kind of Republican they want to run against.

No.

The Democratic strategists in the media tore into Romney back in 2007/2008. They wanted McCain. THAT is the kind of Republican they want to run against President Obama, someone who is just a little bit feeble-minded (the way Bob Dole was.) This time around, the media wants Ron (lets-just-sell-the-gold-in-Fort-Knox) Paul, to win.

Mitt Romney is "smarter" than President Obama. Mitt Romney can out-debate/out-speak/out-Obama President Obama. Mitt Romney can steal away the true-moderates/Reagan-Democrats from President Obama. And I don't have to tell any of you the "middle" plays "Kingmaker" in Presidential elections.

The media fawns all over candidates that they know the left-of-center candidate can beat. The media has never fawned over Romney. The only people that ever did were Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Hugh Hewitt, and all of NRO. That is because these people are about WINNING.

Do you want the GOP to win? Nominate Romney, the GOP wins.

10ac wrote:So I guess if Mitt is the nominee I can vote for a fullblown bedwetter or a semi-bedwetter. sheesh! Where do they stand on the economy and dead arabs?

If I was at home I'd find the youtube debate where Romney talks about the Islamic Caliphate. When he was speaking, the rest of the candidates on the stage acted as if they didn't even know what a "Caliphate" was.

The man does his research. That is a President.

The GOP ain't gonna win it unless Jesus returns and throws his name in the ring.

bluetick wrote:::sigh::

States force people to buy insurance all the time.

That is generally true only if you own something where that something makes you responsible for others. That is why you are mandated to buy auto insurance, to protect the other guy that you might hit. If you don't own a car, you don't have to buy auto insurance.

bluetick wrote:My state makes me buy liability insurance, and it also makes me buy workers compensation for my employees. And as of March 1st of this year, it was mandated that I had to buy WC for myself as well. (thanks be to you, our new "less-government" Republican legislature)

Again, this is all about you owning something and you are required to insure it to protect others.

Mandating you buy health insurance is the only time government has ever required someone (who owned NOTHING) to buy something. The only "others" you are "protecting" when you buy health insurance is the state government who must reimburse the emergency room if you get hurt and are too irresponsible to pay an ER bill.

Jungle Rat wrote:The GOP ain't gonna win it unless Jesus returns and throws his name in the ring.

You may be right rat, but I doubt 2012 will look anything like 1996.

It's the economy, stupid.

Jungle Rat wrote:The GOP ain't gonna win it unless Jesus returns and throws his name in the ring.

Jesus probably would lose in the Republican primary

I see IB is still a cum-guzzling jackass...

hedge wrote:I see IB is still a cum-guzzling jackass...

Hedge, what value do you add to this earth? Do you add any?

You certainly add no value to this forum as you don't have anything to say other than personal insults. I mean seriously, what good are you? If, God forbid, anything terrible should happen to you, would you be missed by anyone?

Jungle Rat wrote:The GOP ain't gonna win it unless Jesus returns and throws his name in the ring.

Jesus would lose in the Democratic Primary as well

States force people to buy insurance all the time. My state makes me buy liability insurance


Sounds like tick the thick is arguing that the Tennessee state constitution = the US Constitution.

Toemeesleather wrote:States force people to buy insurance all the time. My state makes me buy liability insurance


Sounds like tick the thick is arguing that the Tennessee state constitution = the US Constitution.

Exactly.

There is no Federal law mandating auto insurance. The state does that. And they only do that if you own a vehicle. And I'm not even sure every state requires that you buy insurance (particularly if you own the vehicle, clear title, with no debt.)

Owlman wrote:

Jungle Rat wrote:The GOP ain't gonna win it unless Jesus returns and throws his name in the ring.

Jesus would lose in the Democratic Primary as well

That's because no one would believe he was Jesus.

There is no Federal law mandating auto insurance.

That's not the question. The question is where in the Constitution that says they can't pass such a law? The purchase of insurance is clearly part of commerce, which is a power specifically delegated to the Legislature of the United States in Article I, section 8 of the Constitution. So unless there is somewhere in the Constitution that says they can't do it, then how is it unconstitutional?

10th Amendment? Where in the 10th Amendment?

(There is a legal argument on both sides, but most have no earthly idea what it is and just are spouting off).

Owlman wrote:There is no Federal law mandating auto insurance.

That's not the question. The question is where in the Constitution that says they can't pass such a law? The purchase of insurance is clearly part of commerce, which is a power specifically delegated to the Legislature of the United States in Article I, section 8 of the Constitution. So unless there is somewhere in the Constitution that says they can't do it, then how is it unconstitutional?

10th Amendment? Where in the 10th Amendment?

(There is a legal argument on both sides, but most have no earthly idea what it is and just are spouting off).

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

Us Constitution wrote:To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States,

The Constitution stipulates that the Federal government can (and should) REGULATE commerce.

No where in the Constitution does it say it can force the individual to CREATE commerce (ie: buy an insurance policy against your will.) CREATE <> REGULATE. The Fed can TAX YOU (and use those dollars taken from you to buy things you have no use for) but they can't force you to buy something. Why can't they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth ... nstitution

Us Constitution wrote:The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution officially abolished and continues to prohibit slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime.

And what is involuntary servitude?

Wiki wrote:Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion other than the worker's financial needs.

I have to work/labor to make money to buy something against my will. If I choose not to (under Obamacare) then I pay an additional penalty. The Fed can't do that. If the Fed COULD do that (force me to buy insurance), why can't they force me to buy spinach? Or a house? Or anything?

The Tenth Amendment allows "the state" the Freedom to do things (things the Fed can NOT do) not already outlined in the US Constitution. So unless someone Amends the Constitution (#28) saying that the state is not permitted to force people to buy things, then the Massachusetts health insurance mandate is permitted, albeit ONLY at the state level. That is the beauty of Federalism. If you don't like a state law, as a US Citizen, you are free to LEAVE your state of residence and go elsewhere and STILL remain a US Citizen.

Thus we have the difference between Obamacare and Romneycare.

innocentbystander wrote:

Toemeesleather wrote:States force people to buy insurance all the time. My state makes me buy liability insurance


Sounds like tick the thick is arguing that the Tennessee state constitution = the US Constitution.

Exactly.

There is no Federal law mandating auto insurance. The state does that. And they only do that if you own a vehicle. And I'm not even sure every state requires that you buy insurance (particularly if you own the vehicle, clear title, with no debt.)

Apparently basic comprehension is something not to be taken for granted at the "new & improved" PNN.

In response to prof's rumination about Romney forcing health coverage in MA, I merely pointed out that states force coverage all the time and all over the fruited plain and even gave examples. How it came to pass that toe thought I was arguing that
TN's "constitution" = US Constitution is puzzling to say the least.

IB seemed determined to make the point that mandated coverage only exists for someone who "owns" something. Again I'll make the point - as of 3/1/2011, the TN legislature said many classes of employers are now mandated to carry workers comp on themselves and can no longer exclude themselves from ANY WC policy. The cry coming from these affected employers is identical to what you you hear from those decrying an individual health mandate: you can't force us to take coverage we don't want, that this is egregious government over-reach! Yet this is the exact same R legislature that recently passed a bill stating that any federally mandated healthcare coverage would not be welcome, enacted, or enforced within our state borders. I thought the irony was obvious...and obviously was mistaken.

But yeah, if you want to avoid mandated insurance coverage altogether, then

• don't get a driver's license
  don't buy a house
  don't get a job
  don't own your own business

bluetick wrote:But yeah, if you want to avoid mandated insurance coverage altogether, then

• don't get a driver's license
  don't buy a house
  don't get a job
  don't own your own business

I can have a driver's license and a job and carry no insurance.

bluetick wrote:

innocentbystander wrote:

Toemeesleather wrote:States force people to buy insurance all the time. My state makes me buy liability insurance


Sounds like tick the thick is arguing that the Tennessee state constitution = the US Constitution.

Exactly.

There is no Federal law mandating auto insurance. The state does that. And they only do that if you own a vehicle. And I'm not even sure every state requires that you buy insurance (particularly if you own the vehicle, clear title, with no debt.)

Apparently basic comprehension is something not to be taken for granted at the "new & improved" PNN.

In response to prof's rumination about Romney forcing health coverage in MA, I merely pointed out that states force coverage all the time and all over the fruited plain and even gave examples. How it came to pass that toe thought I was arguing that
TN's "constitution" = US Constitution is puzzling to say the least.

IB seemed determined to make the point that mandated coverage only exists for someone who "owns" something. Again I'll make the point - as of 3/1/2011, the TN legislature said many classes of employers are now mandated to carry workers comp on themselves and can no longer exclude themselves from ANY WC policy.

You are an employer. You OWN a business.

Oh, and because of liability concerns, most landlords now require that their tenents provide them annually with proof of renter's insurance coverage. So add

• don't rent a house or an apartment

So basically if you want to live free of mandates, then find you a tent city or go live under an overpass. Put that independant spirit to the test....until someone with a badge and a nightstick moves you along

bluetick wrote:Oh, and because of liability concerns, most landlords now require that their tenents provide them annually with proof of renter's insurance coverage. So add

• don't rent a house or an apartment

So basically if you want to live free of mandates, then find you a tent city or go live under an overpass. Put that independant spirit to the test....until someone with a badge and a nightstick moves you along

I own a rental house and rent to a family that has no renters insurance. They can't afford it.

You are talking out your ass.