The Goat Pen

Fuck the vagina thing. Ban tree for all the god damn tic toks.

“Fuck the vagina thing.”

Doubt too many here are particularly surprised you feel that way.

"He is a man. He was always a man."

"She was born with a vagina."

Why did you lie, IB?

I've seen some McDonalds fight videos where this man/woman hybrid would get their ass kicked by full-bodied females (with maybe an additional hair weave). Its not real fighting unless a shirt gets torn and some floppy titties are hanging out anyways

aTm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 12:50 pm She was born with a vagina. Being "intersex" is not synonymous with having ambiguous or dual genitalia (ie a hermaphrodite). Chromosomes do NOT determine sex no matter how much the Dunning-Krueger affect of people who know a little bit about genes, want to think they know-it-all about it when they dont know shit.

Mmmmm, no. Chromosomes are everything for sexing people. If they took a look at birth they would have seen, xy and NOT xx. That is it aTm, its over. That is the science. He may have been intersex and born with a vagina or what not (I do not dispute any of what you are saying), but he NEVER EVER had an ovary NOR did he ever menstruate. Ever. That is because he was (and still is) a man.

Did you ever watch House MD? Great show. Fantastic show while it ran. I think we may be talking about this situation. Fast forward to the last two minutes if you lack patience to understand the science that I DO understand:



HE (the man who was boxing) had testicles SOMEWHERE in his body. Not her body, HIS body. He was always a man. Your Dunning-Krueger affect is more like the Freddie Krugger affect if you think it has any impact on reality.

"He may have been intersex and born with a vagina or what not (I do not dispute any of what you are saying), but he NEVER EVER had an ovary NOR did he ever menstruate."

Did she have a penis when she was born?

irrelevant hedge. HE was always a man. Always. HE had testicles (just couldn't see them.) HE did NOT have any ovaries, nor a womb, NOR did HE ever menstruate out HIS vagina.

Male. The end. That's it. But hey, at least I am not calling you a liar.

"HE had testicles (just couldn't see them.)"

Sounds like you...

Nice strawman. Way to re-direct to personal attack when we both know you've lost the argument. When that happens, not only does that sound like you, that IS you.

We have known what is man and what is a woman for a thousand years. Chromosomes were only discovered in 1882. The Y-chromosome was only first identified in 1905.

I have a drivers license that says I am male. I have a birth certificate that says I am male. I have a penis in my underpants. However, do you know what does not exist? There is no concrete absolute proof that I have XY chromosomes that exists anywhere in our world except encoded in my genes where not one single person has ever looked at it. Now there is very strong circumstantial evidence that I am indeed a normal XY male, but a genetics test has never been done on me and was never needed at any point to determine that I was male back in 1981.

In this fantastical pure science world you have built (which of course is based on only the simplistic 6th grade biology version of science taught to school children to have them understand the basics, and not like, you know the real messy squidge that real life shows us), we cant actually know the physical sex of anybody until their chromosomes are tested. This is bullshit. We have been able to tell a boy from a girl by taking a look at a babies crotch for hundreds of thousands of years. Thats physical sex. You observe the physical characteristics, and categorize. Penis=male Vagina=female.

Its not and HAS NEVER been XX=female and XY=male. Number 1, many people dont fit in either of those. There are XXY men, there are XY females, there are XYY men, etc. This application of reading the genes to decide implies the existence of more sexes than there are. In addition, every mammalian organism is a female by default. The Y chromosome merely impacts the gonadal tissue, and this tissue then produces hormones that change the rest of our bodies and sexual organs into the male versions from the female version. If you have an XY embryo and the gonadal tissue is removed on purpose, or if it is damaged, then that embryo will grow in the womb and be born a female with vagina, uterus, fallopian tubes, everything because the default state without hormonal intervention is for all those to develop along the female path. What will be born is the female version of that mammal. The instructions said "male" but what was cooked in the oven came out "female." Therefore the XY instructions aren't the determinant factor. They are the blueprint, but they aren't the structure.

If a person has genes that say they have blue eyes in their DNA, but the person clearly has green eyes, then the person has green eyes regardless of the interpretation of the DNA.

innocentbystander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:03 pm Nice strawman. Way to re-direct to personal attack when we both know you've lost the argument. When that happens, not only does that sound like you, that IS you.

There's no argument here. She's got a vagina. She doesn't have a penis. She's a she. Maybe you should check your parts, too...

"If a person has genes that say they have blue eyes in their DNA, but the person clearly has green eyes, then the person has green eyes regardless of the interpretation of the DNA."

Not according to IB...

That supermodel in your House episode is a female. No scientists would classify her as male, because she has almost no male characteristics. Shes got boobs, a vagina, she's so hot she's held up as the ideal feminine form by society...oh but on this side of the seesaw we got XY, a thing nobody can see. The XY does not outweigh the rest. Also, I know we've been down this road before with you, but you know TV isnt real, right? Like some writer just sat down and made up things for those actors to say? Sometimes there are shows about like, aliens or Godzillas, and those are complete hogwash and dont really exist? Are you aware?

aTm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:11 pm We have known what is man and what is a woman for a thousand years. Chromosomes were only discovered in 1882. The Y-chromosome was only first identified in 1905.

I have a drivers license that says I am male. I have a birth certificate that says I am male. I have a penis in my underpants. However, do you know what does not exist? There is no concrete absolute proof that I have XY chromosomes that exists anywhere in our world except encoded in my genes where not one single person has ever looked at it. Now there is very strong circumstantial evidence that I am indeed a normal XY male, but a genetics test has never been done on me and was never needed at any point to determine that I was male back in 1981.

In this fantastical pure science world you have built

Is far superior to the purely emotional one that you are currently building. Your way is hysterical, emotional, and the ravings of a little girl who insists that her feels matter more than facts. My way is logical, absolute, scientific, and entirely amoral. Is it a moral thing to tell a man born with a vajayja that he is in fact, a man (even though he lived his whole life as a woman?) Maybe not. He might be suicidal after finding that out. But its still correct. He is a man. And that boxer is a man. I'm not wrong. Simplistic? Maybe. Sure. Absolutely simplistic. Wrong??? No. I am correct. 100% correct.

aTm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:11 pm(which of course is based on only the simplistic 6th grade biology version of science taught to school children to have them understand the basics, and not like, you know the real messy squidge that real life shows us), we cant actually know the physical sex of anybody until their chromosomes are tested. This is bullshit. We have been able to tell a boy from a girl by taking a look at a babies crotch for hundreds of thousands of years. Thats physical sex. You observe the physical characteristics, and categorize. Penis=male Vagina=female.

And in 149,999 of those cases, that IS the situation. But when the vagina never bleeds, ever, and now she is 15, 16, 17, (I don't know, 18, 19, still.... no menarche?) maybe it might be time to go and get the DNA test to look at the chromosomes? Yes. Might find, she doesn't have any ovaries or a womb either. That is a man. Always was a man. The end.

aTm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:11 pmIts not and HAS NEVER been XX=female and XY=male. Number 1, many people dont fit in either of those. There are XXY men, there are XY females

No. No there are not. There are NO xy females. xy = male. That's it.

aTm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:11 pmthere are XYY men, etc. This application of reading the genes to decide implies the existence of more sexes than there are. In addition, every mammalian organism is a female by default. The Y chromosome merely impacts the gonadal tissue, and this tissue then produces hormones that change the rest of our bodies and sexual organs into the male versions from the female version. If you have an XY embryo and the gonadal tissue is removed on purpose, or if it is damaged, then that embryo will grow in the womb and be born a female with vagina, uterus, fallopian tubes, everything because the default state without hormonal intervention is for all those to develop along the female path. What will be born is the female version of that mammal. The instructions said "male" but what was cooked in the oven came out "female." Therefore the XY instructions aren't the determinant factor. They are the blueprint, but they aren't the structure.

Of course it is. There has never ever been any documented cases of a person with a Y chromosome ever having ovaries or a womb. That doesn't happen. And its not going to happen. That is because (finally) we understand the science, the science that God always understood that He (God) reveals to us as we can begin to understand, Him. What we may not fully know yet is what gets things cooking in the womb where the fetus gets the Y chromosome and becomes a male vs when that doesn't happen. We may not fully understand that. But we DO understand, that the Y chromosome means, man.

aTm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:11 pmIf a person has genes that say they have blue eyes in their DNA, but the person clearly has green eyes, then the person has green eyes regardless of the interpretation of the DNA.

That is strawman. There have never been any cases in the human species where a person with a y chromosome had ovaries or a womb. If you have a y chromosome, you will never have period and you will never get pregnant. You are male. You have testicles instead, even if you can't find them. But they are there in your body, somewhere. That is because you are male.

We know these things now. Stop being a hysterical woman about this aTm. The science is the science. That boxer in the Olympics fighting those woman, he is male.

aTm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:28 pm That supermodel in your House episode is a female. No scientists would classify her as male, because she has almost no male characteristics. Shes got boobs, a vagina, she's so hot she's held up as the ideal feminine form by society...oh but on this side of the seesaw we got XY, a thing nobody can see. The XY does not outweigh the rest. Also, I know we've been down this road before with you, but you know TV isnt real, right? Like some writer just sat down and made up things for those actors to say? Sometimes there are shows about like, aliens or Godzillas, and those are complete hogwash and dont really exist? Are you aware?

The actress playing the role is female. But the character is male. They found HIS testicles. He's male. That is why he never had a period. He has no uterus, no ovaries, none of that. He has testicles (one of which, has cancer.)

Yes aTm, its just a tv show. But the science (at the end) is accurate.

hedge wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:22 pm

innocentbystander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:03 pm Nice strawman. Way to re-direct to personal attack when we both know you've lost the argument. When that happens, not only does that sound like you, that IS you.

There's no argument here. She's got a vagina. She doesn't have a penis. She's a she. Maybe you should check your parts, too...

That boxer? Certainly not. Tell me, would you like to fuck the vagina of that boxer? Oh, and those titties on that boxer are about as useless as tits on a bull. No milk could ever come from them. You want to play with them?

That is a man, hedge.

Looking to see if a baby has a penis or vagina is neither irrational or emotional or even subjective. It is just fact, the way it is, the way its always been, the way it was decided that you yourself are a boy, or whatever.

There is a phenotype expressed in that person. Phenotype is the set of observable characteristics of an organism. It is determined by the genotype (the set of genetic instructions received from both parents) , but imprtanty, also by the environment. The genotype is just information. The phenotype is what EXISTS. That is the science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

It is certainly possible to have a womb with XY. It is even possible for an XY female to give birth (with both hormonal assistance and a donor egg to counteract the missing gonadal assistance which would normally come from ovaries), and apparently even one documented case of an unassisted pregnancy and birth an XY female. So again, you're wrong and dont know shit.

Heres some more general light reading for you so you can educate yourself with freely available information not written into TV shows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadal_dysgenesis

aTm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 5:07 pm Looking to see if a baby has a penis or vagina is neither irrational or emotional or even subjective. It is just fact, the way it is, the way its always been, the way it was decided that you yourself are a boy, or whatever.

There is a phenotype expressed in that person. Phenotype is the set of observable characteristics of an organism. It is determined by the genotype (the set of genetic instructions received from both parents) , but imprtanty, also by the environment. The genotype is just information. The phenotype is what EXISTS. That is the science.

I don't know what phenotypes are and I don't care. I know what chromosomes are. You have a Y chromosome, male. That's it. You have a Y, you will NOT have ovaries. You have a Y, you will NOT have a uterus. You have a Y, you WILL have testicles. You are male. Thats it.

aTm, for 28 of my working years, I spent 26 of them as a computer scientist. In that world, I learned that computers only do what you tell them to do. And they operate entirely logically, not emotionally. The logic behind what your sex is, is determined scientifically by chromosomes. And in 149,999 cases out of 150,000, the person with a Y chromosome will have a penis. In that very rare case that they have a vagina, it does not make them female. It just makes them DEFORMED, intersex, not female. That is a deformity. But still, he (with a Y chromosome, deformed or not) is a male that lacks a uterus, lacks ovaries, and has testicles. That's just... logic.

Biology is just computer science with a different code and organic hardware. However, nobody is telling it what to do, nonetheless bugs in the software, and useless unused code, and hardware glitches all do exist. Its actually perplexing stance for a computer scientists, and suggests your knowledge of biology is so minimal as to be useless.