The Goat Pen

ECat says he lives in Ohio. Average teacher salary there is almost 57K.

My home state of Massachusetts has the second highest paid teachers in the country BUT we were number one in the country in math and reading.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... 81/#slide9

In this one case (certainly not in New York's case) you get exactly (precisely) what you pay for....

If you want to get the pay of the typical teacher you should be using median and not average.

Starting pay for teachers in Maryland is awesome, a full 50K at age 22. They go up only a small amount compared to where they start. That probably more correctly reflects the value of the teacher.

aTm wrote:If you want to get the pay of the typical teacher you should be using median and not average.

Okay I task you to look that one up.

I think everyone else is looking at the chart I linked and studying it... and learning.

That salary comfort index on that chart I linked is also very interesting (albeit subjective.) Teachers make pretty good money indeed in Alaska and Hawaii, sadly it doesn't go very far that's for damn sure (expensive states to live in...)

I think everyone else is looking at the chart I linked and studying it... and learning.

Hmmm...I have my doubts about that.

Bklyn wrote:IB

Also, take a look at the inflationary value of $12K in 1977 translated to today's dollars, to see how far the numbers are apart from each other.

Following up on part #2 of your question here is a good chart.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/EricaYauri.shtml

In 1971, average teacher salary was just over 9K and by 1999, that went to 39K (average.) That almost perfectly reflects the 412% increase in inflation of US dollars over that 30 year period (including the hyperinflation period of the 1970s when we were inflating at 15% click annually.) Inflation since 2000 has been pretty flat (as have interest rates) inflation gone up about 28% to 2012.

Where we start running into problems is when teachers start getting the big bucks, the $75K+ a year figure I was throwing around earlier (ands that is not too far from just average pay in some states.) Getting to brass tacks, in a state like Ohio, a teacher making that kind of money is living real good. That is great compensation for a 180 day work year. But that good pay also crushes the tax payers in the community.

Teachers work more than 180 days a year...

And IB, I don't care what you are doing or how little you are being paid, it is far too much, so you're the last person who should complain about anybody's salary...

hedge wrote:And IB, I don't care what you are doing or how little you are being paid, it is far too much, so you're the last person who should complain about anybody's salary...

I wasn't the one at ECat's meeting. I just have a pretty good idea why he was complaining.

the old man at ecats meeting probably spends his whole life complaing about something

Maybe that old man hasn't had a good movement for a couple of days and well raising taxes was just the last got-damn straw.

My MIF has never asked me for a space heater. If she's cold I always warm her up. Just saying.

Teachers in my public district start out at $68K year. Not bad.

So, I was wrong. $39,000, not $40,000?

Teachers should be paid based on their performance and the complexity of the subject that they teach, not based on tenure. If you are teaching elementary school, you probably shouldn't be making much more than $40K. I don't care how long you've been teaching the 4th grade, you really don't bring any more benefit of being there 25 years than someone who has been teaching for 5 years. I also feel elementary teachers shouldn't get a bonus for a graduate degree because it is useless for teaching at that level.

Junior/Senior High math and science teachers probably do deserve the $75K level. The masters degree is important here. History teachers at this level? Heh, not much more than elementary, same could go for English.

sardis wrote:Teachers should be paid based on their performance and the complexity of the subject that they teach, not based on tenure. If you are teaching elementary school, you probably shouldn't be making much more than $40K. I don't care how long you've been teaching the 4th grade, you really don't bring any more benefit of being there 25 years than someone who has been teaching for 5 years. I also feel elementary teachers shouldn't get a bonus for a graduate degree because it is useless for teaching at that level.

Junior/Senior High math and science teachers probably do deserve the $75K level. The masters degree is important here. History teachers at this level? Heh, not much more than elementary, same could go for English.

We are heading this way.

Biggest complaint School Superintendants are having is that they have ZERO POWER to do what they must to keep the hard level science, comp sci, and math teachers. These people have a much easier time using their education in the business world/private sector because of the enormous amount of cognative ability required to teach these classes (cognative ability not required to teach, say, history.) Problem is two fold for the Superintendants. Problem one is the Union insists that pay raises be tenure based. Problem two stipulates that the government (be it the Department of Education at the Federal Level or even at the State) places hard compensation lines that are drawn in the sand based on additional degrees, certificates, and credentials, and NOT NEED. So on the one hand, administration is dealing with a 3rd party collective bargaining agreement that the teachers pay to represent them that demands the longer the teacher is there, the more money they make. And on the other hand you have government entities of beaurocrats doing bullshit government work crafting bills and policy for primary and secondary education that tell school districts that they MUST pay raises based on how many additional pieces of paper the teacher has accumulated. Problem is, the Superintendant really NEEDS more math teachers but her or she is not (in anyway) allowed to pay them MORE in order to keep them.

This has to change. And we will eventually get there.

The only way we wont get there is if all the STEM teachers are YOUNG teachers. That is it. That is what saves school administration. I don't have to tell everyone here (we all know this) teachers get burned out real quick and they quit and go do other things when they are sick of it. And this happens even MORE SO for the math and science teachers. Everything is okay provided there are a continuous flow of 22 year old kids flooding the teachign job market with BS Degrees in Math and Science and a teaching credential. The moment this stops happening, school administrations are fucked if they want their kids to learn things they must learn.

Jungle Rat wrote:Teachers in my public district start out at $68K year. Not bad.

For starting teacher pay, that is great pay.

I'm not entirely sure of the point being made by IB.

Its 2012. In 1986, entry level salary for an IT professional was 23K, now its 65K.

The difference is old men on fixed incomes don't have to pay their salary I guess