The Goat Pen

T Dot O Dot wrote:If houston were to land dwight, I think bargz would be a great complimentary 4.

One more item about tanking, there are rumblings out of cleveland that kyrie irving spent weeks on injured reserve when he was ready to play, I doubt there will be any backlash

Dwight would be playing with Asik most of the time and plus the Rockets wouldn't have the money for both Bargs, Howard and Harden plus Lin. Lin they would trade plus potentially one of their young (non-starting PF's) but I don't think that helps you guys at all and the Rockets are looking at Aldridge or Kevin Love first.

Trade Bargs if possible but I doubt they can get a for him. Gay I think you are just stuck with. Is he available for amnesty (not sure what the limits on amnesty are)? Keep DeRozan, Val, Amir Johnson and Ross. Trade Lowry only if you have to and plan for 3 years from now.

T Dot O Dot wrote:I don't get why getting a first rounder would be so hard, a solid team that spreads the floor could use bargnani and I'm not even thinking high lottery, just low teens

He's owed over 22M the next 2 years and has 1 NBA skill. And even that has eroded the past 2 years as he's shot 30% from deep.

No team will give up a first round pick for him, In fact I doubt many teams would be willing to take on his salary even if Toronto included a 1st rounder...

Like I said, just amnesty him. That way, he at least won't count against the cap.

Last year, there were evidences he lost respect from his teammates and I think he'd be addition by subtraction at this point.

I think Gay should be amnestied before Bargs. Same length of contract for a lot more money. Or more, trade one for the best young player you can get and amnesty the other.

Can't amnesty Gay. There's a deadline (probably 2009 or 2010) and you need to have had the player under current contract on your roster on the deadline date to be able to amnesty him. Meaning you can't trade for a player then amnesty him. If he were still on Grizzlies, they could amnesty him.

The amnesty does not remove the player from the cap hit, just the luxury tax calculation

no one wants Bargnani knowing that the Raps don't want him. He isn't being paid a ridiculous amount for what he was showing in terms of development but the development stopped. You might be able to get rid of him for an expiring contract but it doesn't help in your pursuit of any of the guys dot mentioned. the team isn't bad enough unless you get rid of Gay/Lowry/DeRozan for nothing. And that can't happen with anyone's contract except Lowry's.

and the NBA has vetoed trades before... whether you want to believe it was because of "competitive" reasons or accept that their "fax didn't arrive in time" is up to you.

but their is absolutely a history of the NBA stopping trades. would they? dunno.... you would have to talk to Stern and company and if you do.... let me know what they tell ya.

as for Ross.... yep, coming from the guy that said something similar about my comment that Parker would be one of the top 5 pg's I would choose if building a franchise back in 2000. yep.... really means something now. that dude really sucked and proved me wrong.... yet i got every dang stat thrown at me imaginable.

and i remember quoting something about Paul George in Feb that was fortuitous as well. and I am still not sold on Ross because of his decision making.... his talent is beyond question. if he develops MENTALLY, he will be an all star. If not, another really physically talented player that had the potential.... like so many others. but if you doubt his talent because the stats don't back it up, that would be a mistake.

"With that said, Paul George is the most underrated player in the league.....love the guy! " (Feb 8th, 2013)

but, didn't Chris Paul get traded to the Lakers?

You say there are examples where NBA vetoed trades and you haven't actually brought one up. I mean where's this history?

Chris Paul example doesn't fly because that's a totally different situation. New Orleans was inbetween owners and NBA actually had temp ownership stake of that team and it was more like an owner shooting down his GM's deal. Kinda like how Jordan backed out of a all-but-done Calderone for Chandler trade at the very last minute. And while I'm sure you'd like to fool yourself into thinking they had NBA's competitive balance at heart, their biggest goal was to make the NO team as attractive to potential owners as possible and they decided trading Chris Paul to Lakers with no significant immediate talent coming back would not accomplish that goal.

And Pau Gasol did get traded to Lakers.

re - You say there are examples where NBA vetoed trades and you haven't actually brought one up. I mean where's this history?

Chris Paul example doesn't fly because that's a totally different situation.

---- LMAO... prove it to me... and when you do, I will tell you it doesn't apply. and it doesn't matter anyway because the point was much bigger.... it's practically impossible to retool this roster (mostly because of Gay) to become bad enough to compete for Wiggins. it's a pipe dream. the only way we get Wiggins is if the NBA fixes next year's lottery to have a Toronto boy playing in his hometown.

BUT... not getting Gay would have been an ideal situation to land Wiggins or any of the other top talent.

You let Calderon expire and you have cap flexibility to make future deals. You have a young big that still needs to develop but doesn't make the team a playoff threat. If you really want to get rid of Bargnani, you package him with either Davis/Johnson for an expiring deal and possibly a pick. You trade Lowry for a pick..... the team is bad enough to compete for Wiggins but still has Val/Ross (and possibly Davis), and possibly more picks with a ton of cap space.

talent around the main guy but the flexibility to add. Gay was a desperation move and I feel sorry for our new GM

Were plenty bad enough to tank for wiggins, I don't get how people think were a 7-8 seed possibility next year

we are bad dot... and maybe even as bad as 7 or 8 but the odds.... out of that slot.... say you don't get any of the players you mentioned without involvement from the league office. I know they say it's a "lottery" but the winners have always seemed to be extremely lucky considering their circumstances at the time..... maybe it's my cynicism but NO winning after the league just sold the team and the Cavs winning twice after LeBron (after winning to get LeBron to his hometown) just seem shady.

BUT, I just don't see us being as bad to almost guarantee a top 3 pick. no PG and injuries is the only way I see it happening and our new GM won't tank unless directed to.... and I can't see Rogers accepting a tank. so he can't ditch Lowry which is the only way the team is bad enough to ensure top 3.

"LMAO"

Typical. Lack of reading comprehension or just idiocy. Whatever the case may be, all you can do is try to laugh it off when it's clear you got nothing. You speak of history when there is none and the one example you could bring up doesn't even apply because the league was acting with ownership power to try and make the team attractive to prospective buyers, not as some kind of league police. But of course, I already know you'll conveniently ignore that as you have many times before. Typical.

And when going gets tough, you just try to change argument.

Like I said, where is the history?

It's Canadian basketball. Is there really a history?

Technically, basketball was created by a Canadian. So, they have that.

So was curling.

Scratch

A 34-win team doesn't need some magical intervention to tank for a top pick and no, NBA won't be vetoing any trades done to make it happen. You may not believe the Raptors ownership wouldn't want to tank, nobody knows one way or another. But if they took that road, with Leiweke already publicly acknowledging the strength of 2014 draft, it won't take some miracle to get done.

And I don't know how you can talk about some conspiracy theories and not see that NBA might see Wiggins in Toronto as a huge marketing opportunity and might actually want him here than anywhere else. He could have bigger impact than Vince Carter once did here and this city could use some of that boost after years of suffering.

re - Like I said, where is the history?

gave it to ya already... you didn't like it.... same as Tony Parker..... whenever you grow up... you might get it

rockets are making their push, declining team options on aaron brooks, delfino & garcia

brooks would look good as a 2nd PG, i wouldnt be surprised to see any cap cleared player on our roster, we also cancelled minicamp, Masai strictly wants veterans or draft picks