The Goat Pen

"if the GOP continues to offer bad versions of democrats instead of a true conservative they will never win."

Not so sure about that. I think the tea party, i.e., the "true conservatives" are the exact reason the repubs are losing ground nationally. They're still strong regionally (in certain regions, at least), but that's a losing game. The world is moving away from this hard core religious bullshit. The sooner the larger repub party figures that out, the better it will be for them. If they don't, they're toast. Trim that bullshit and move forward. Or else don't and become irrelevant...

On a brighter note, true freedom won one its greatest victories in modern times with the passing of the recreational marijuana laws in Washington state and Colorado. Light one for me, ladies and gents!

eCat wrote:last night the best democrat won

if the GOP continues to offer bad versions of democrats instead of a true conservative they will never win.

Romney is not a bad version of a democrat. He was a bad version of a Republican; sometimes

I don't see it that way.

someone was saying Romney needed a woman or a minority on his ticket, but really, what would having a woman as VP do for you if you're going to introduce no contraception and eliminating abortions as part of your platform?

Romney's priorities were to spend money on war and push conservative social change without any conviction on his part as to why.

The tea party folks - the ones that are serious about electing candidates to be singularly focused aren't the problem - they create gridlock , but that gridlock led to sequestration - the hatchet that has been needed to enforce fiscal responsibility on Washington. It is the right way to do it? no of course not, but I'm not certain the ends don't justify the means. It simply wasn't going to happen any other way.

Right now the GOP will nominate a candidate that continues to address social change and its the Achilles heel of the party. All those hard core evangelicals continue to get a plank and it kills their chances. They are too entrenched to understand it so they blame welfare queens as the reason they can't get a candidate elected.

Owlman wrote:

eCat wrote:last night the best democrat won

if the GOP continues to offer bad versions of democrats instead of a true conservative they will never win.

Romney is not a bad version of a democrat. He was a bad version of a Republican; sometimes

just as Obama is a bad version of a democrat.

they are closer to the middle than either side wants.

I think the lesson here is that the sides don't decide, the middle does....

They'll delay the sequestration, then pass immigration reform early, increase taxes for those over at least $500,000, at least $2.00 in cuts for each one dollar in revenue and punt health care cost reform down the line

the short term issues are Obamacare and sequestration.

I'm not just spouting Fox News partyline shit with this - both of these issues are going to cost people jobs.

Not that I don't think huge cuts are necessary but I can speak first hand how big government contractors have frozen spending until they see what is going to happen.

Owlman wrote:They'll delay the sequestration, then pass immigration reform early, increase taxes for those over at least $500,000, at least $2.00 in cuts for each one dollar in revenue and punt health care cost reform down the line

To seriously handle the deficit, you need a ten to one ratio.

sardis wrote:

Owlman wrote:They'll delay the sequestration, then pass immigration reform early, increase taxes for those over at least $500,000, at least $2.00 in cuts for each one dollar in revenue and punt health care cost reform down the line

To seriously handle the deficit, you need a ten to one ratio.

Not to handle the deficit. That will go after the debt. Don't need to go after the debt at this point. As for Obamacare, there is nothing that is going to happen there. Repubs are fools if they think they in anyway are going to change that except for on the margins. If they keep holding votes in the House to get rid of PPACA, they are just going to see their popularity drop more.

No, I'm talking about the deficit.

How much revenue do you think you raise by raising the rate on those making over $500K?

BTW, China says congrats.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49722996

I'm surprised it was as close as it was

repubs came within <1.5% of knocking off an incumbent president sitting presedent who knocked off osama, got us out of iraq and getting us out of afghanistan against a candidate who has binders full of women and supports a candidate who says god is ok with women having rape babies

slight shift to the center buy any number of candidates against a backdrop of obama not cutting deficit and not stimulating economy sets up the repub party nicely in 16

but theyt have to move more twords choice and away from the tea party

I was speaking to my Evangelical uncle last night. The Tea Party will keep its claws in the GOP until enough get knocked off locally to force the remaining ones to play nice in the sandbox.

The Tea Party killed about 4 Senate seats for the GOP. Akin, WWE Woman and Mourdock all lost in races that would have been won by just about any moderate Republican. The GOP is cannibalizing itself. If they don't embrace more of a Libertarian social policy they won't be relevant in national politics for a generation.

Unlikely

they have to drop the social agenda

many more of them realize that this morning than yesterday

Or rather, what you said might be true, but they will find their way to the middle enough in this climate that there is no way one of these two parties gets shut out for a generation.

A party can easily flip to a new identity within 8 years, once they realize the demographics arent in their favor.

I also think that the libertarian view that the GOP realizes that they need to soften up on the social side is totally false. They will work on the opposite side. They will soften up on immigration and expand their socially conservative base by trying to add hispanic voters, IMO.

aTm wrote:I also think that the libertarian view that the GOP realizes that they need to soften up on the social side is totally false. They will work on the opposite side. They will soften up on immigration and expand their socially conservative base by trying to add hispanic voters, IMO.

Bingo. The GOP isn't going to leave the fundies behind.

Within 12 years I see California and Texas on the same side of elections against the Northeast and Northwest.

both parties have armies on the ground which are fairly polarized. but the core of each is closer to the real problem in that big govt. serves as an arm of big business and putting that genie back in the bottle is probably never going to happen. a lady beside me in Moe's last night complained that Obama was killing small businesses but isn't Romney's adherence to corporate dominance in part thru outsourcing jobs and focusing on the bottom line just as harmful as Obama's higher tax rate?

I still think people need to see govt as a solution instead of a problem, which it is right now. that comes from greater involvement at the roots level and working upward instead of bellyaching about DC politicians.

And make no doubt about it, we are certainly a divided nation but no more so than in previous eras with (mostly) higher-educated urbanites and (mostly) less-educated rural people having very different perspectives.

The GOP would be wise to not just court the voters they haven't had on their side but actually make itself attractive to those voters (minorities, low-income, women, etc) by enacting more inclusive policies. right now the GOP comes off as a bunch of white guys who think they know it all because they've managed, however they've done it, to forge a comfortable living and don't care about those who don't have that.

Also I know Romney is a Mormon and all, but I find it a little difficult to believe that a party would run the governor of Massachusetts for President, lose, and come out of it saying...wow, we've got to get more socially liberal!