Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Big Orange Junky]

Tick, at that time yes the Dems supported Sundquist on that matter. That was a direct quote from one of the links that they "had the votes to pass it until the protests.""

As you admit they had a dem congress so to "have the votes" they had to have support of the dems.

Sorry but they did at that time. They saw their chance to get more money to waste and they were all for it, along with Ned Ray who I actually liked. It was he and Sundquist together that were pushing it. Now you may say the dems supported Ned Ray lobbying for it, but they had to votes therefore they had the support of the dems who controlled both houses.

[bluetick]

The link was wrong. There were never enough votes to support an income tax.

The Republican leader in the Senate, Ben Atchley of Knoxville, is against the income tax, as are many Democrats. Mr. Atchley said he was certain there were not enough votes in the Senate to pass the governor's bill. He agreed that Tennessee's tax system had a structural problem, but said that many taxpayers did not perceive it as an immediate problem. "In last year's election everything was rosy," he said. "And then all of a sudden we've got a problem."

Mr. Atchley and others are looking for alternatives to an income tax, and ideas about taxes on services and personal property as well as spending cuts are beginning to be floated. The state's Medical replacement program, Tenncare, is a likely target when cuts are proposed.



And the window-breaking car-honking protest you referred to was days after the dem-majority House had approved a "no-new-revenue" (no income tax) budget. It was a Senate vote to keep the gov's bill alive, and there was never any proof given that it would have passed...with or without the radio jocks and their protest.

The budget eventually got balanced with tobacco-lawsuit money and cuts to Tenncare (your boy Ned Ray's boondoggle...hello?).

[bluetick]

Stocks Rise on Jobs News, Housing Starts - MSN Money 2/16/12

Seems like for the longest time that the market rises on domestic news and falls on Greece/European economic woes.

[Owlman]

It's only Tennessee.

heh

[bluetick]

It's only Tennessee.

heh

Heh. Algore said the same thing

[puterbac]

Again, what BOJ can't support in fact he makes up with sheer volume. I'm not clicking on that LA Times link, because I don't get my news about the Volunteer State from the fucking LA Times.

These are irrefutabile facts:

Tennessee has NEVER had a state income tax.

Tennessee has had a democratic legislative majority going back to Reconstruction (roughly 145 years), until 2010.

Until Haslam took over last year, for nearly all of the 2000's TN had a dem governor to go with the dem legislature. If the dems wanted a state income tax, we would have had one. During the two terms of Ned McWherter the dems also controlled the entire show.

There have always been "tax fairness" people from both parties going back to Vietnam who've pushed for an income tax - mostly to reduce the hefty sales tax that does burden the low incomers. But you specifically said "the dems" backed Sundquist and that is bs. If the dems had backed him we would have one right now.

I want a fucking retraction and I want it now.

Well this explains a lot. You won't click on a link because it isn't a local paper? Jesus Christ.

I'm gonna guess Glenn Reynolds isn't local enough for you either: http://glennreynolds.com/

By the time lawmakers surrendered and went home, there were even protesters brandishing tar and feathers in the state Capitol. At a time when figures like Sean Wilentz and Garry Wills are assuring us that the public is fat, prosperous, and ready once more for taxes and big government, last month’s episode in Nashville offers a bracing reality check.

Just a few days earlier, adoption of an income tax had appeared all but certain. Tennessee’s pro-tax Republican governor, Don Sundquist, had used a combination of pork and arm-twisting to bring many legislators over to his side. Though the Tennessee Supreme Court had previously ruled that an income tax would violate the state’s constitution, tax proponents believed that the current elected court, fearing revenge by the powers-that-be, would uphold a tax. Leading opinion-makers, newspaper editorialists, and academics were firmly on board. The Legislature was meeting in special session, and the main question seemed to be what kind of income tax would emerge, not whether there would be an income tax.

All of this evaporated overnight in the fact of overwhelming opposition. Thanks to a combination of talk-radio discussion and an e-mail campaign spearheaded by the state Libertarian Party, the Capitol found itself, almost literally, under siege.

Thousands of cars circled Capitol Hill, bearing down on their horns and tying up traffic throughout downtown. Hundreds of protesters occupied the Legislative Plaza, with many barging into the capitol building itself carrying signs and — in one case — a can of tar and a feather pillow. “Put a stop to this or we’ll get you,” said one protester in the Senate speaker’s office. Phone and e-mail systems were jammed with complaints and threats.

Despite vows to “do the right thing” in spite of popular opinion, the Legislature cracked. One legislator was rushed to a hospital with chest pains; many others complained about the “incivility” of the public response. The Legislature recessed, hoping the protesters would leave. They didn’t. Finally, the special session adjourned, leaving the income tax question to be taken up — if at all — in the regular session next year. Despite vows from income tax proponents, it seems unlikely that income tax proposals will fare any better in an election-year session.

They DID have the votes, but a number caved due to the pressure from the protests and media. I don't know WTF you are talking about.

[bluetick]

You too? I should be surprised..

Show me in your Reynolds story where it says 'Sundquist and the democrats' nearly pulled off an income tax. In fact the only party mentioned is the Libertarians.

145 straight years of democratic legislative control - and no state income tax. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

[Big Orange Junky]

The link was wrong. There were never enough votes to support an income tax.

And the window-breaking car-honking protest you referred to was days after the dem-majority House had approved a "no-new-revenue" (no income tax) budget. It was a Senate vote to keep the gov's bill alive, and there was never any proof given that it would have passed...with or without the radio jocks and their protest.

The budget eventually got balanced with tobacco-lawsuit money and cuts to Tenncare (your boy Ned Ray's boondoggle...hello?).

There was more than one protest, and the only window broken after all was said and done appeared to be broken from the INSIDE by the lawmakers who wanted the tax at least according to channel 5 when they investigated it and all the glass was on the outside of the door and it looked like it was shattered from the inside. They apparently wanted people taken away so they could vote on it. Same with that state trooper who was supposedly ordered to crack some heads that got demoted afterwards because his cronies hung him out to dry and denied giving the order.

I still liked Ned Ray even if he did bring in TennCare (which was a mistake) as well as how teachers are paid, which is a mistake but I lost alot of respect for him when he started lobbying on behalf of the income tax plan and making sure the dems were on board.

[Big Orange Junky]

Tic, you admit that the dems controlled both houses at the time so Sundquist could get nothing done without them.

The article plainly says it was all but done. The backroom deals were made and it wasn't a question of "if" there would be an income tax only a question of how much.

They tried it at least 2-3 times and protests put it down every single time. Every time they tried it they started out "with the votes" and cried because they lost the votes.

The newspapers and MSM was bemoaning the fact that the legislature changed their votes and bent to pressure from "talk radio".

The unions were for it, the MSM was for it, the newspapers were for it, the academians were for it and before the protests they "had the votes' to get it done and were proud of themselves.

The protests stopped it and that is my point. It would never have gotten stopped at the federal level. Only because it was at the state level and they thought they would be booted out of office did it get stopped.

[bluetick]

145 years of dem control and no income tax. You either admit that, BOJ, or I will go wizard on this fucking thread.

not really

[Big Orange Junky]

145 years of dem control and no income tax. You either admit that, BOJ, or I will go wizard on this fucking thread.

not really

Sure I'll admit that becuase it's true.

That still doesn't change the fact that they jumped on board with it when they thought they could siphon more mone off of the taxpayers to waste.

I never said they supported Sundquist on everything, matter of fact they didn't. But they did support the efforts to get an income tax. They had to because they controlled both houses and they were so sure they had the income tax they already had the money spent. That's why their was so much angst over it not getting passed. They were so close they could smell the overwhelming, intoxicating scent of other peoples money.

[bluetick]

meanwhile..

Reality TV stars Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar rail against birth control ("the pill killed our baby") as they stump for Rick Santorum.

[Professor Tiger]

It's only Tennessee.

heh

Heh heh

This why we need Rat's wisdom and broad perspective around here.

[Jungle Rat]

Keep it simple

[Dr. Strangelove]

The South loves its government benefits

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... tml?ref=us

[sardis]

The South loves its government benefits

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... tml?ref=us

Why does DSL not respect our black and latino citizens plight?

[Big Orange Junky]

The South loves its government benefits

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... tml?ref=us

Yep, just more proof of what years of democrat control will do for ya.

[bluetick]

Ummm


http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/

[sardis]

See, who says there can't be bi-parisanship in congress. This should make bluetick happy...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73006.html

[Professor Tiger]

Southerners may have a disproportionately high percentage of citizens on welfare, medicaid, incarcerated, etc... But,

I can plow a field all day long
I can catch catfish from dusk till dawn
We make our own whiskey and our own smoke too
Ain’t too many things these ole boys can’t do
We grow good ole tomatoes and homemade wine
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Because you can’t starve us out
And you cant makes us run
Cuz we're them old boys raised on shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma’am
And if you ain’t into that we don’t give a damn

We can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive