The Goat Pen

Perot siphoned off votes from both of the other candidates in 92 and 96. If Clinton was running in this election, I predict he would get more votes than anyone in history, by a large margin. Granted, there are more potential voters now just b/c of population increase, but typically less than half of eligible voters actually vote. What I'm saying is that people would actually get off their ass and come out and cast their vote for Clinton, if he was running. I think that's more or less what Bklyn was getting at as well.

As far as race goes, it's obvious that plenty of black folks are going to vote for Obama simply b/c he's black. But equally certain is that plenty of whites will not vote for Obama or any other black person b/c they are black. I was convinced in 2008 that Obama would never be able to get enough votes to win b/c I overestimated the amount of blatant racism in the country. I was pleasantly surprised when it became obvious that Obama was going to win, but even though I overestimated white racism (I am from the South, after all) doesn't mean it's not there.

Sure, you can call blacks voting for Obama just b/c he's black a form of racism (positive racism?). What I find surprising is that anybody would deny that it exists. It's like somebody makes the claim "there are plenty of people who would never vote for a black person b/c they're black" and then any number of other people jump up as if they're personally wounded by that observation. And dear god, if you say that there are plenty of republicans who would never vote for a black guy, they go rabid and try to pretend that there's no such thing as a republican racist, oh my god, how could anyone say such a thing??!! Give me a break, there are plenty of people out there who are still racist as hell. Always have been, always will be...

Romney's voting block is 90% white and he has like 70% in rural areas of the midwest.

Thats why you won't hear Romney or any serious GOP contender take a stand on immigration. The GOP has lost the black vote, they lose the latino vote and they'll never win another election

from ABC timeline of Benghazi

The timeline given by a senior Intelligence official confirms that the facility previously described by the State Department as an annex, was in fact, a facility housing CIA security officers. It does not provide any additional details on the current intelligence assessment that the attack was an opportunistic result of earlier protests that day outside the U.S. embassy in Cairo over an anti-Muslim movie.

The official says there was "no second guessing" of those on the ground in Libya by senior officials either in Libya or Washington.

"There were no orders to anybody to stand down in providing support," said the official. The official's comments appeared to be a direct rebuttal of a Fox News report that CIA teams on the ground had been told by superior officers to "stand down" from providing security support to the consulate.

According to the official, upon learning of the attack at the consulate, the security team at the annex responded "as quickly and effectively as possible." The official described how the security team tried to rally additional support from local Libyan forces and heavier weapons, but that when that could not be accomplished "within minutes" they moved out to the compound. The official called the security team "genuine heroes" who risked their lives to save those at the compound.

According to the new timeline the annex received a call at 9:40 p.m. local time that the consulate was coming under attack. A team of six CIA security operatives left the annex for the mission within 25 minutes of that call.

Over the next 25 minutes the security team approached the compound and attempted to secure heavy weapons. They encountered heavy enemy fire when they entered the consulate compound to locate Stevens and the other Americans who were there at the time of the attack.

At 11:11 p.m., an unarmed U.S. military surveillance drone arrived over the compound. U.S. officials have told ABC News that the drone had been redirected to Benghazi from an ongoing mission elsewhere in Libya.

By 11:30pm, all of the Americans, with the exception of the missing Stevens, had left the compound in vehicles that immediately came under fire.

The annex itself came under sporadic small arms and RPG fire for the next 90 minutes before the attackers eventually dispersed.

At around 1 a.m. an additional CIA team of about six security officers from the embassy in Tripoli had arrived at Benghazi. U.S. officials have acknowledged that the embassy in Tripoli had chartered an aircraft to take the team to Benghazi. The official disclosed the new detail that two U.S. military officers were part of the team that flew in from Tripoli.

Upon learning that the situation at the annex had calmed down, the team that came in from Tripoli initially wanted to focus their attention on locating Stevens, who had been taken to a local hospital.

When the team finally managed to secure transportation and an armed escort into Benghazi, they learned that Stevens "was almost certainly dead and that the security situation at the hospital was uncertain." At that point they headed to the annex to help evacuate the Americans located there .

They arrived at the annex at 5:15 a.m., just before mortar rounds begin to hit the complex. The attack killed two security officers, Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, who were located on the annex's roof. Doherty had been part of the security team that had flown in from Tripoli. The new attack on the annex lasted only 11 minutes.

Less than an hour later everyone at the annex was evacuated with the help of "a heavily armed Libyan military unit. "

When I was flipping channels the other night, I saw that The English Patient was on (only about 30 minutes left). I had seen it before, but I watched for a second and one of the characters mentioned Benghazi...

If Obama won in 2008 and loses in 2012, you can't say he lost because he was black. If that were true, you have to say that some voters who voted for him in 2008 suddenly became racist in 2012.

Obama won by 7% in 2008.

Right, no way you can blame it on the fact that people were just tired of 8 years of Bush or that even people who wouldn't vote for Obama just weren't motivated enough to come out for McCain...

how can you win a national election then lose it 4 years later and say you lost because america is racist

I'm sure MSNBC will try there best to do that tho

Actually, I'm convinced the only reason Romney is even slightly hanging in with this race is partially due to race

There are far more single issue voters on many different other issues that are larger slices than the racial component in this election. There is also a component of the racial factor that works for Obama. Black's had the highest number of voter turnout (meaning a greater percentage of blacks voted than the percentage of other races) in the 2008 election, largely to vote for Obama.

There can't be far more single issue voters or that many other issues, b/c black voters make up (theoretically) 14% of the vote, so there can't be many other single issues or single issue voters that garner more than that. Plus, we'll never know the percentage of voters who simply won't vote for a black person. That may not be the single most important issue to them, but if it's a necessary condition for withholding their vote and that condition is met, then it is de facto the single most important issue as far as the black candidate is concerned as to why he didn't get their vote...

Why is it that if I mention race, then race becomes the single issue why something happened? That's not what I said nor intended, so I don't get the need to keep spinning around about it. Even white people who claim to be impervious to white guilt sure get real defensive about it.

Why does Brook hate white America?

sardis wrote:Obama won by 7% in 2008.

Bill Clinton won by 8.5% in 1996. Bill would destroy the field if he was running. Come to think of it, he would have destroyed the field in 2000. He said as much before the 2000 election...and it pissed the shit outta old Al Gore-rhythm.

Jungle Rat wrote:Why does Brook hate white America?

Because they keep referencing Caddy Shack, The Goonies and Office Space all the time and expect everyone to get the reference.

I would just like to say that I have many black friends.

Bklyn wrote:

Jungle Rat wrote:Why does Brook hate white America?

Because they keep referencing Caddy Shack, The Goonies and Office Space all the time and expect everyone to get the reference.

lmao

I think the only reason I didn't vote for Obama is because I'm partially racist.

Surprising. Since you're gay.

Wow, what a haymaker.

Bklyn wrote:

Jungle Rat wrote:Why does Brook hate white America?

Because they keep referencing Caddy Shack, The Goonies and Office Space all the time and expect everyone to get the reference.

Wait, there was a black guy in Caddyshack....

[youtube]P2VXPGhO8qg[/youtube]

I don't know if America is racist but eastern NC sure as shit is