The Goat Pen

Heh. You got me puter...putting that Daily Mail link at the bottom.

good one

"So what rational or moral justification is there for a mega-wealthy corporate raider like Romney to pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes than a typical truck driver or school teacher?"

A truck driver or school teacher does not pay a more percentage of their income to income taxes than Romney unless that teacher is a private tutor for the Buffett grandchildren, then maybe.

As to morality. I guess what do you base your morality? If you hold to Judeo-Christian beliefs, then you would hold to the flat tax philosophy based on the tithes and offerings concept. Everybody paid the same percentage no matter what the income level. Whatever rate you make Mitt pay you should be willing to make the poor pay that rate as well.

This presidentdude is just awesome!!!


"On Tuesday at the State of the Union, I laid out my vision for how we move forward. I laid out a blueprint for an economy that's built to last, that has a firm foundation. Where we're making stuff and selling stuff and moving it around and UPS drivers are dropping things off everywhere."

30 years and a gazillion dollars later, common sense has appeared on the education horizon. Based on this model, we've still got about 10 more years of wandering in the desert of MMGW.


For decades, the prevailing wisdom in education was that high self-esteem would lead to high achievement. The theory led to an avalanche of daily affirmations, awards ceremonies and attendance certificates — but few, if any, academic gains.

Now, an increasing number of teachers are weaning themselves from what some call empty praise. Drawing on psychology and brain research, these educators aim to articulate a more precise, and scientific, vocabulary for praise that will push children to work through mistakes and take on more challenging assignments....

A growing body of research over three decades shows that easy, unearned praise does not help students but instead interferes with significant learning opportunities.

Jungle Rat wrote:There was a time when income tax rates were %60. That tax rate built the country we live in today. Just sayin.

The tax rate? Did you really claim the tax rate is what built the country? Not the people who created the biz that put them into the highest brakets, but the rate itself?

Btw I believe the top rate was 39.6% during your beloved Clinton era. Although cap gains were cut and the market flourished even before the dot com boom started.

Jungle Rat wrote:Puter, you live in a great country. Pay up.

I pay what I am legally obligated to pay.

Professor Tiger wrote:I guess the obvious question to puter and PNNery is this: why should the super-rich guy pay a lower tax rate than the middle class guy?

I'm not talking about the legality of it. I know it's legal. Just like partial birth abortion. But being "legal" does not make it rational, much less moral.

So what rational or moral justification is there for a mega-wealthy corporate raider like Romney to pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes than a typical truck driver or school teacher?

And I ask again do you think there should be a lower rate for capital gains?

bluetick wrote:Heh. You got me puter...putting that Daily Mail link at the bottom.

good one

So lazy

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2011/13

State of the Climate Global Analysis 2011
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Climatic Data Center

Global Highlights

* This year tied 1997 as the 11th warmest year since records began in 1880. The annual global combined land and ocean surface temperatlure was 0.51 C (0.92 F) above the 20th century average of 13.9 C (57.0 F). This marks the 35th consecutive year, since 1976, that the yearly global temperature was above average. The warmest years on record were 2010 and 2005, which were 0.64 C (1.15 F) above average.

* The 2011 globally averaged precipitation over land was the second wettest year on record, behind 2010.

Here's some more "logic" from the Weather Channel, aka MMGW Central.....here's their "alert" for us in Chattooga county, where we've had 3 consecutive days w/o rain for the first time since Christmas, in other words, the ground is still saturated and water is still pooling in ditches and low lying areas....


http://www.weather.com/weather/alerts/l ... C&etn=0000

Sardis, as a Bob Jones graduate, I'm sure you are aware that the Old Testament has a lot of commandments where the poor paid less than the rich. For example, Hebrew farmers were told not to harvest the edges of their fields, so that the poor could eat it. Also, in the commandments governing sacrifices in the Temple, if the usual sacrifice was a lamb, the poor could usually substitute cheaper sacrifices like doves and pigeons. Leviticus 27 lets a poor person pay a lower tax than others, etc.

In both Testaments, I read countless places where God expresses - and commands - compassion on the poor. I can't remember too many cases where He praises the rich for merely being rich. I also can't remember a single case where expresses blanket contempt on the poor, or calls them lazy and unproductive, like I often read around here.

And I ask again do you think there should be a lower rate for capital gains?

I'm in favor of the Warren Buffett doctrine: that billionaires shouldn't pay a lower tax rate overall than their secretaries. I doubt that would be achieved by lowering the cap gains rate. Maybe leave cap gains rate as is, but throw in an AMT.

Professor Tiger wrote:Sardis, as a Bob Jones graduate, I'm sure you are aware that the Old Testament has a lot of commandments where the poor paid less than the rich. For example, Hebrew farmers were told not to harvest the edges of their fields, so that the poor could eat it. Also, in the commandments governing sacrifices in the Temple, if the usual sacrifice was a lamb, the poor could usually substitute cheaper sacrifices like doves and pigeons. Leviticus 27 lets a poor person pay a lower tax than others, etc.

In both Testaments, I read countless places where God expresses - and commands - compassion on the poor. I can't remember too many cases where He praises the rich for merely being rich. I also can't remember a single case where expresses blanket contempt on the poor, or calls them lazy and unproductive, like I often read around here.

Those are minor fees for certain priest services in Lev 27 not a tax, and yes, we do have an obligation to feed the poor. I don't think you can say that the U.S. falls short on feeding the poor. But make no bones about it the foundational "tax" or "tithe" was the main source of institutional revenue in Israel in that day and it was not means tested.

Yes, in the New Testament God calls on individuals to care for the poor. Individuals, not governments. You didn't hear him call on Caesar

Yes, in the New Testament God calls on individuals to care for the poor. Individuals, not governments.

In a democracy like ours, the amount of government care for the poor is ultimately decided by we the people, as an aggregate of individuals. If our government spends our tax money to care for the unemployed, the poor, the sick and the elderly, it's because most Americans want it that way.

And speaking of Caesar, we are obligated to pay for that by "rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." Thank God that restrains the will of some American Christians who, in all Christian love, want to abolish the government's care for the unemployed, the poor, the sick and the elderly.

I'm curious as to why beef prices are rising?

BRM off his diet?

If he quits too it's your fault.

HEY KISS MY ASS!!

Professor Tiger wrote:

And I ask again do you think there should be a lower rate for capital gains?

I'm in favor of the Warren Buffett doctrine: that billionaires shouldn't pay a lower tax rate overall than their secretaries. I doubt that would be achieved by lowering the cap gains rate. Maybe leave cap gains rate as is, but throw in an AMT.

First of Romney isn't a billionaire.

Second Buffet could choose to pay himself a salary, but he doesn't. Why? To avoid paying the higher tax rate. He's hypocritical as hell on this.

Third? WHY? Whose life will be made any better by forcing someone to pay a higher rate? You really think that money is going to be efficiently used by govt? Bullshit. The taxes Romney paid were probably 15-20 times what Buffet's secretary EARNED in total salary. He paid over 3 million in taxes in 2010.

Buffet/Romney/etc earned their money. They invest AFTER tax money into businesses that they see have some kind of value. Those companies then use that money to expand in either equipment and/or PEOPLE which generates more tax revenue as those people have to pay taxes and the people that make the equipment hire more people and they pay more taxes.

This isn't some special loophole that is only available to those with an access code.

The tax law is the way it is to encourage investment and in turn to help create jobs which creates more taxpayers which brings more money to the treasury for govt to waste. These long term capital gains otherwise it would be at a higher rate.

The bottom line is history has shown that raising this rate ends up costing the treasury money while lowering the rate brings in more revenue to the treasury.

So would you rather feel like you stuck it to somebody by decreasing the money raised by the tax or actually have more money to the treasury despite the lower rate? Face..here is your knows thanks to spite.