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Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:44 pm
by Red Bird
If modern Jews lived as the Christian Bible suggests they should, they'd be a bunch of real hard asses. Luckily, like Christians, they don't really follow what their scriptures teach, I wonder if they ever did?
Too bad Christians don't follow that guy Jesus' teachings. But Jesus said himself, that few would hear him.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:49 pm
by Red Bird
Funny thing, and some will think I'm some kind of narcissist for saying so, but I think I am one of a very few people who hear Jesus. Figuratively of course.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:52 pm
by innocentbystander
Red Bird wrote:We are at the precipice of understanding. That is (at its core) is Islam (as the majority religion) and a Representative Democracy, mutually exclusive?
They way Osama Ben Laden interpreted scripture, they were. I have to admit though, that I'm basically ignorant of the beliefs of most Muslims.
I don't think it works. RedBird, maybe not in our lifetimes will we understand if it works in Iraq (what we've done) but we are going to find out eventually.
Sidebar. I find it troubling that in Islam,
you are not permitted to charge interest on debt. That concept of savings and loan interest is pretty fundamental for free market capitalism. In fact, I'm not sure you can HAVE capitalism without credit/debt (not unless everyone keeps all their earnings in a can until they can afford to pay cash/gold for everything.)
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:53 pm
by innocentbystander
Red Bird wrote:If modern Jews lived as the Christian Bible suggests they should, they'd be a bunch of real hard asses. Luckily, like Christians, they don't really follow what their scriptures teach, I wonder if they ever did?
Too bad Christians don't follow that guy Jesus' teachings.
Some of them do RedBird. I try to....
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:56 pm
by Red Bird
I don't think Jesus was a capitalist. And I doubt he would have approved of interest.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:02 pm
by Red Bird
Now this is very interesting. And shows how philosophically different you and I are.
I find it troubling that in Islam, you are not permitted to charge interest on debt.
This is the best thing I've heard yet about Islam. Usury is the root of social stratification, which I oppose in any form. I'm pretty sure Jesus shared my view.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm
by innocentbystander
Red Bird wrote:Now this is very interesting. And shows how philosophically different you and I are.
I find it troubling that in Islam, you are not permitted to charge interest on debt.
This is the best thing I've heard yet about Islam. Usury is the root of social stratification, which I oppose in any form. I'm pretty sure Jesus shared my view.
I'm not sure Christ would have been AGAINST the 3-bedroom, 2-bath, home mortgage.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:08 pm
by eCat
The magna carta was pretty clear on it
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:08 pm
by Red Bird
I doubt Jesus would oppose someone borrowing money to build a home; it's the charging of interest that he would have opposed.
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
-Jesus (Mark 10:24-25)
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:14 pm
by innocentbystander
Red Bird wrote:I doubt Jesus would oppose someone borrowing money to build a home; it's the charging of interest that he would have opposed.
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
-Jesus (Mark 10:24-25)
If you can't charge "interest" no business would ever loan you the money to build it.
Please separate fantasy from reality.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:17 pm
by innocentbystander
eCat wrote:The magna carta was pretty clear on it
this was interesting....
http://groups.google.com/group/total_tr ... 6ecf264855
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:29 pm
by Bklyn
Muslims have a way to get around the interest issue in business dealings. It's called "Sharia Compliant Investing" and it's been a hot focus in investment circles for years now. It was imperative to create a legal structure that allowed for Islamic investors to access the capital markets because there was a gang of oil money out there that these entities wanted to invest for future benefit (oil reserves won't be around forever, but the Princes in Abu Dhabi expect that their progeny will live a life as luxurious as theirs). Also, hedge funds and investment banks wanted to get access to the "sticky money" that these entities have, especially because the classic Defined Benefit structure that we used to have here is going the way of the dinosaur.
Sovereign Wealth Funds like ADIA are buying into hedge funds, banks, real estate and private equity at an increasing rate...even if most people don't realize the amount of money they have deployed in Western economies.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:40 pm
by Red Bird
If you can't charge "interest" no business would ever loan you the money to build it.
You mean if
they can't charge interest. Not nitpicking, but making sure we are clear.
And I agree, but such truths are why I am not a capitalist. And also why I'm reasonably sure that Jesus wasn't a Capitalist either.
love ye your enemies, and do good and lend, hoping for nothing again.
-Jesus (Luke 6:34-35)
You see, interest is incompatible with the teachings of Jesus.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:46 pm
by Red Bird
Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask for them
back.
-Jesus, (Luke 6:27-30) “
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:47 pm
by hedge
" Too bad Christians don't follow that guy Jesus' teachings.
Some of them do RedBird. I try to...."
You fail miserably. For example:
"I'm not sure Christ would have been AGAINST the 3-bedroom, 2-bath, home mortgage."
IB is dumber than a rock, but that in itself doesn't negate him as a christian. But his manifest greed for all forms of material wealth combined with his utter lack of understanding of how such greed is completely contradictory to the teachings of Jesus is just pathetic. Like his whole miserable existence. IB, you should quit trying to figure out whether or not Islam is compatible with representative democracy and focus on how somebody who acts like the biggest fan of Ayn Rand's "philosophy" can at the same time claim to truly believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus. You dumbass motherfucker...
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:10 pm
by innocentbystander
Red Bird wrote:If you can't charge "interest" no business would ever loan you the money to build it.
You mean if
they can't charge interest. Not nitpicking, but making sure we are clear.
And I agree, but such truths are why I am not a capitalist. And also why I'm reasonably sure that Jesus wasn't a Capitalist either.
Well He was a carpenter and a Rabbi RedBird. And I doubt that while He was a carpenter, that He worked for free. We both know that Rabbis are paid clergy.
Obviously, His ministry was not about collecting money from His believers. Christ (personally) had no real use for money. And He didn't particularly care for people doing business in His Father's Temple.
We all know the Sermon on the Mount. Blessed are the poor and the meek, RedBird. He preached that we should all love the Lord our God with all our heart and soul. I'm in with that. He also preached that we should all love our neighbors. I try to, but sometimes that is a hard one. But for the record, Christ's commandments about loving your neighbor (giving the shirt off your back, even) were for each one of us (individually) as followers. And as an individual, I try to follow that (giving all that I can to those who need it the most.) But that doesn't mean that I expect my employer to be Christ-like. They are trying to run a business. And apparently, I can't expect you to understand the difference since you (by your own words) are not a capitalist. For if you could understand the difference, then you WOULD be a capitalist.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:11 pm
by innocentbystander
hedge wrote:IB is dumber than a rock, but that in itself doesn't negate him as a christian. But his manifest greed for all forms of material wealth combined with his utter lack of understanding of how such greed is completely contradictory to the teachings of Jesus is just pathetic. Like his whole miserable existence. IB, you should quit trying to figure out whether or not Islam is compatible with representative democracy and focus on how somebody who acts like the biggest fan of Ayn Rand's "philosophy" can at the same time claim to truly believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus. You dumbass motherfucker...
It appears hedge prefers to channel the emotional maturity of one jw.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:10 pm
by eCat
I've read most of that stuff before
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:11 pm
by Red Bird
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
- Jesus (John 10:27)
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
-Jesus, (Mathew 7:13 - 14)
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:18 pm
by eCat
ain't nobody want to hear that jebus stuff on here