The Goat Pen

so you can just induce that by manipulation?

I didn't know that

Takes dedication, though.

Watching the US Open, they showed an aerial view of the course, there are no trees. We were kinda wondering what happened, then they said the club had felled over 15,000 trees. I'm sure they had some reason for it, but damn, it looks like a boring ass course from the air, and on top of that there's a freeway running right thru the middle of it. I'm sure they've got the greens graded out so it's challenging for the pros (and the scores this weekend bear that out), but damn, it sure ain't much to look at...

I've played that course before and after they felled the trees. I have a friend who is a member. I liked the course with the trees, but a bunch of pro historian members wanted to bring the course back to the early 1900s in its original state. The PGA still likes it for the Open because of the greens, but the course was visually more pleasing with the trees. You think it looks like a dump on TV, you should see it when they don't keep it as nice. The members are so stout in their history that they won't even air condition the club house and the locker rooms.

I hear that back in the 50s the club angered some legislator so the Turnpike went through the course.

The network certainly hasn't been showcasing the turnpike. Crowd seems kinda lame too for a major. Seeing a lot of empty seats in the bleachers and the standing crowds around some greens have only been one or two deep, and patchy at that. Not sure what's going on here...

Crowd is starting to firm up now that the leaders are coming up the back 9, but it still seems pretty tame...

"The members are so stout in their history that they won't even air condition the club house and the locker rooms. "

Isn't that Quaker country up there? Reminds me of HL Mencken's definition of puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy...

Happy Father's Day Hedge!

- said no one ever without a DNA test.

Oakmont is the third best golf course I have ever played. Getting rid of the trees massively improved it. For the most part golf courses should have far fewer trees.

Cletus wrote:Oakmont is the third best golf course I have ever played. Getting rid of the trees massively improved it. For the most part golf courses should have far fewer trees.

Which courses do you rank in your top five?

"For the most part golf courses should have far fewer trees."

What about freeways?

Also, my main reason for posting that about the trees being gone was to get your take on it. What are the elements you look for when rating a course? What is it about Oakmont that puts it in your top 3? I am assuming based on your comment about the trees that aesthetic issues play no role in your rankings, but it seems like, e.g., Augusta wouldn't be improved by uprooting all the trees and bushes. Or maybe it would, at least from the players' perspective...

DooKSucks wrote:

Cletus wrote:Oakmont is the third best golf course I have ever played. Getting rid of the trees massively improved it. For the most part golf courses should have far fewer trees.

Which courses do you rank in your top five?

In the US - Cypress Point, Pine Valley, Oakmont, Chicago, Camargo

I really should have Merion instead of Camargo. I think almost everyone would agree that Merion is a better course. But, I've played Camargo a bunch since I've last played Merion and I really love that place so it gets the last spot.

hedge wrote:Also, my main reason for posting that about the trees being gone was to get your take on it. What are the elements you look for when rating a course? What is it about Oakmont that puts it in your top 3? I am assuming based on your comment about the trees that aesthetic issues play no role in your rankings, but it seems like, e.g., Augusta wouldn't be improved by uprooting all the trees and bushes. Or maybe it would, at least from the players' perspective...

The trees they've added at Augusta over the past 15 years have really fucked up that course. It would be way better if they got rid of the trees (not all the trees - the ones on the perimeter are good but the things they added at places like the landing areas on 11 and 15 are bad). It would be much easier for the pros but a better golf course. I guess they've decided that their mission is to make the course tough for the tournament. It's hard to explain but old Augusta with tons of width and different options at each hole was better. But, that was before guys could hit it so far and made every hole a drive and wedge. I'd love it if the Masters made a new ball that went shorter, cut back the trees, and made the guys play the course it was meant to be played with longer approach shots and lots of width and angles.

Oakmont is fantastic because it uses the land perfectly, has a great mix of holes (long, short, straight, doglegs in both directions, etc), and the best set of greens on earth. It's probably the best tournament test on earth.

Trees as a framing device are fine and on some occasions a single tree or set of trees on a hole can play a very important strategic purpose. Pine Valley is an example of a place that has a billion trees but they are mostly far enough away from the playing corridors that they don't really impact play. There are exceptions but, for the most part, the trees are not an issue unless you hit a terrible shot. When you have a course that has trees in play everywhere and forcing you to hit a series of dead straight shots (or sideways pitch outs), I don't think that's likely to be a very good course. And, adding to the problem is that many places planted trees without thinking about what happens when they grow. You end up with lots of big trees that encroach on the holes and often adversely affect the way they are meant to be played. You see this a lot at older courses that were designed one way, saw tree planting over the years, and then when the trees grew up conflicted with the original design. My course had this problem all over the place. We closed last year for a major renovation and one of the things we did was take down 10,000 trees. We still have plenty of amazing old growth trees some of which play an important role in how a hole is played but, on the whole, clearing out thousands of the shit trees has made it so much better.

liked torrey pines a lot
actually wide open
Scottsdale has a lot of good courses with no trees

don't know how lame that crowd was yesterday seems like the idiots screaming after any shots were in full force yesterday.
how the hell they penalized DJ a shot makes no sense
that drop he toolk for the obstruction also makes no sense
their ought to be a rule that if you hoit it in the primary rough you drop in the primary rough--not the first cut or the fairway which btw I think that won him the tourney

"don't know how lame that crowd was yesterday seems like the idiots screaming after any shots were in full force yesterday."

On one of the tees, I saw a guy with a shirt that had a golf ball right on the lip of a cup with the words "I'd tap that" in large letters...

They should let the USGA official that is with the group make the decision right then and there and for it to be final. That official, from what I understand, said play on, no penalty after consulting with Johnson and Westwood, his playing partner. I am also surprised that cameras are used in this process. As old and staid as the USGA is, you would think that would be forbidden.

I wish you were forbidden food and water...

I wish you were forbidden air.