The Goat Pen

The Newsroom is an abomination. Every minute you spent watching that crap should have been spent watching BB, GoT, or sleeping.

I hate Newsroom, too. A bit too much sanctimony for me.

probably, but I locked in on it.

West Wing was preachy too but I watched it.

Its an escape - to watch a show where people strive to live by their values.

"plus I'm fucking old now so if I'm sitting still in a recliner past 10pm I'm nodding off."

EFZ

And no one in my family bothers to wake the old guy up or turn off the tv and leaves him downstairs waking up to infomercials at 2am. Next to a hangover its the worst feeling in the world.

Yeah that is some shameful shit not watching BB or GOT.

eCat wrote:so Boardwalk Empire is done, Newsrooms is winding down - I'm not a Game of Thrones fan so I'm not sure HBO has much to offer me in the near future.

More sex with the wife?

I can't understand anyone not liking GoT, unless they were the type of person who hates all Fantasy/Sci Fi.

CHRIS ROCK INTERVIEW

What about conservative comedians? You and Dennis Miller were on SNL together. Is it just because I don’t share his politics that I find him less funny, or is there something about conservative stand-up that just doesn’t work?

Yeah, he was there my first year. He used to bust my balls. He’d come into my office and say, “Hey, Rock, how’s that ‘next Eddie’7 thing working out?” Oh, he’s definitely less funny. You know where he’s going. Smart as hell, but you know where he’s going. The middle’s where it’s at, comically. I mean, what do you got? Miller, Stewart, Maher.

Miller on the right, Stewart in the middle, Maher on the left?

And the most successful guy’s …

Stewart?

Stewart’s middle-to-left, but he’s still more in the middle.

In Miller’s case, do you think that identifying with those in power is an impediment to laughter?

I’ll say this. Poor people laugh harder than rich people. Especially black people, they laugh with their feet, too.

I know that it’s Miller who first introduced you to Robin Williams. What did you make of his tragic end?

Comedians kill themselves. Talk to 100 comedians this week, everybody knows somebody who killed themselves. I mean, we always say ignorance is bliss. Well, if so, what’s the opposite? Some form of misery. Being a comedian, 80 percent of the job is just you notice shit, which is a trait of schizophrenics too. You notice things people don’t notice.

...

What would you do in Ferguson that a standard reporter wouldn’t?

I’d do a special on race, but I’d have no black people.

Well, that would be much more revealing.

Yes, that would be an event. Here’s the thing. When we talk about race relations in America or racial progress, it’s all nonsense. There are no race relations. White people were crazy. Now they’re not as crazy. To say that black people have made progress would be to say they deserve what happened to them before.

Right. It’s ridiculous.

So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he’s the first black person that is qualified to be president. That’s not black progress. That’s white progress. There’s been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship’s improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, “Oh, he stopped punching her in the face.” It’s not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner’s relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn’t. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let’s hope America keeps producing nicer white people.

It’s about white people adjusting to a new reality?

Owning their actions. Not even their actions. The actions of your dad. Yeah, it’s unfair that you can get judged by something you didn’t do, but it’s also unfair that you can inherit money that you didn’t work for.

http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris-ro ... ation.html

it’s about white people adjusting to a new reality?

Owning their actions. Not even their actions. The actions of your dad. Yeah, it’s unfair that you can get judged by something you didn’t do, but it’s also unfair that you can inherit money that you didn’t work for

--------------

I'm sorry but that's wrong and its a big problem with race relations today. I won't be responsible for what happened 50 years ago , I've never actively discriminated against anyone and from a small age I've been taught the basics of equality for men - even growing up in a southern influenced part of the country - and the bigger issue is that the Latino's and Asian Americans that are growing in demographics in this country have no qualms about saying they don't owe anyone anything.

I understand what he says about progress, but no one from my family is getting into Harvard, no one from my family has a shot to be president, no one from my family will ever be considered for a cabinet position - and that rings true for about 90% of white America, so to act as if that was there for all of us all along , all we had to do is just show up and declare we are white - just doesn't ring true to the average guy on the street.

To be fair, the only white people he knows are the ones in the top 1%.

I guess it depends on what "responsible" entails. Every time someone tries to boil a point down, a part of the nuance is left unsaid. That's how I took the statement (and why I chose that passage to paste...because I was interested in your opinion...as I knew you'd give it).

I am a Black man who has seen his share of discrimination and been the recipient of a boatload of inappropriate comments about my race from teachers, administrators, civil servants, civilians, bosses and co-workers alike over the few decades I've been alive. I also am EASILY in the top 3% of income earners in this country, on a bad year. So, I ain't your typical Black dude struggling in these mean streets trying to make a dollar out of $0.15.

Every time you throw a blanket, some don't neatly fit within it.

However, to me, the term "responsible" is about understanding what got us here. If you don't understand why people burn buildings during riots, why people are protesting when grand jury testimony says that Michael Brown was probably not a model citizen or a complying perp when confronted by police, why players from the Rams will throw their hands up, why rappers make songs titled "F___ Da Police" or why the no-snitch culture is not solely about individuals aligning with criminals in the community then you may not have taken the time to understand the weight of US history on this particular people of color.

Also, if you sent your daughter to that hoity-toity school she sure as shit could have gotten into Harvard and maybe still could (esp. the graduate programs). The question is if you want to pay for it. Stop selling yourself and your family short. Dammit, you got a dentist. It all starts from there.

sardis wrote:To be fair, the only white people he knows are the ones in the top 1%.

Heh. Nah, some of my best nannies are white.

Bklyn wrote:I guess it depends on what "responsible" entails. Every time someone tries to boil a point down, a part of the nuance is left unsaid. That's how I took the statement (and why I chose that passage to paste...because I was interested in your opinion...as I knew you'd give it).

I am a Black man who has seen his share of discrimination and been the recipient of a boatload of inappropriate comments about my race from teachers, administrators, civil servants, civilians, bosses and co-workers alike over the few decades I've been alive. I also am EASILY in the top 3% of income earners in this country, on a bad year. So, I ain't your typical Black dude struggling in these mean streets trying to make a dollar out of $0.15.

Every time you throw a blanket, some don't neatly fit within it.

However, to me, the term "responsible" is about understanding what got us here. If you don't understand why people burn buildings during riots, why people are protesting when grand jury testimony says that Michael Brown was probably not a model citizen or a complying perp when confronted by police, why players from the Rams will throw their hands up, why rappers make songs titled "F___ Da Police" or why the no-snitch culture is not solely about individuals aligning with criminals in the community then you may not have taken the time to understand the weight of US history on this particular people of color.

Also, if you sent your daughter to that hoity-toity school she sure as shit could have gotten into Harvard and maybe still could (esp. the graduate programs). The question is if you want to pay for it.

I readily admit I don't get it, but neither does a noticeable percentage of people my age or below because we've never been a part of active descrimination in this country. For Chris Rock to talk about sending his kids to an elite school full of white people - a school I could never afford (and don't get me wrong - I don't begrudge Rock for making his money - he worked hard, took chances and earned it) to tell me in general that I need to take responsibility for what has happened in this country (I'd say get in line behind the American Indian but thats another issue) is really a mixed message. He's my age, he grew up in this country, thrived in this environment and he was able to come from generally impoverished means and became more successful than 99% of all Americans, yet what - is he the exception to black men? He was born with an extra gene or motivation chromosone that others didn't get? Did I have it easier than Chris, the multi-millionaire comedian/movie star?

I'm not sure I can speak for White America but I can try.

For white America - if a white kid had just robbed a store, had confronted the police and acted in a manner that was described by some witnesses as to what Michael Brown did, most white people are going to say "well no wonder his ass got shot, he should have had his ass home". Seriously, there isn't going to be a big public outcry, there isn't going to be people showing up all over the United States to talk about what a tragedy this was. But when white America says that about a black kid, somehow we are out of touch with the plight of black Americans. Most likely what we are out of touch with is having any empathy or sympathy for a young African adult male who lives on the edge of the law. Michael Brown isn't a story about a black kid being harassed by the police. But what its turned into is a story about continual police harassment of African Americans. You've seen my anti-police rants on here , but I'm not buying into the idea that police are out hunting young black african males, and I have to say that you can't ignore the statistics of young black African males involved in crime. Clearly there is profiling going on by the police but there is reasoning behind it. For me to hear a black family say they shouldn't have to worry about their son getting shot, a white American is going to say - he won't get shot if his ass is home and not out messing around. I just don't understand how black America can dismiss Michael Brown (on video tape no less) stealing cigars and pushing around the shop owner that confronts him.

Before the rioting, I was 100% all in with the not having militiarized police, but then the rioting occurs and the black community of Ferguson basically justified the police for having that equipment - they actually needed that to stop the rioting - but they chose not to, probably in response to the nation's outcry for their tactics early on - and a city burned as the people who are paid to protect the citizens sat on the sidelines and let "protestors" wipe out small business that supported the black and white community of Ferguson.

I understand that getting pulled over by the police for being nothing more than being black can wear a person down over a lifetime of being subjected to it. I also realize I have no clue whats it like to live in an urban area surrounded by crime, drugs , death and overwhelming poverty. But how long and how many generations do we have watch repeat the same cycle of despair before we have to say enough, I am no longer obligated to address the inequality if there is no progress being made.

We live in a world where a black man or woman can grow up in poverty and climb out of it - no different that what some if not many of here did. That world existed realistically going back to the mid 70's. So just as white America doesn't understand why people are mad that a kid fucking around with the police gets shot, they don't also don't understand squandered opportunity. White America talks with the same disdain for the folks that live on welfare in the Appalachians as we do anyone else. We have the same disdain for people that fake disability. Because its about wasted opportunity or getting over on the system.

I don't know - I really don't think of myself as racist, but I readily admit, I'm suffering a form of fatigue right now from an angry black populace that sees the world thru a different prism that the one the rest of us have to live in. I'm not saying you do, but those riots in Ferguson were based on witness testimony that has been contradicted and a media circus intent on fanning the flames - the media *wanted* Ferguson to burn down and they pushed it every chance they got. The "gentle giant" Michael Brown certainly got a favorable narrative in the national media. Had the people came forward that said Brown charged Wilson like an angry bull, instead of the media plastering his buddy's version of the events, would we even be talking about Brown today or the black struggle?

eCat

You are the reason I peak in here every day. I'm gonna enjoy this back and forth. Thank you. I'm in my office and can't get side-tracked from work (got a week of swagged out parties every night, so tonight is the last night I have to work before my evenings are out glad-handing and boozing...and eating fancy-named food). I will respond to your well-thought-out post when I have the breathing room.

In the meantime, this still came to mind...

[youtube]QR465HoCWFQ[/youtube]

(Back to work)

"Owning their actions. Not even their actions. The actions of your dad. Yeah, it’s unfair that you can get judged by something you didn’t do"

I thought he was talking about black people just as much as white people with that statement...

ECAT well fucking said.

I am not as smart or long winded but how about stop acting like savages, have respect for your shit, and obey the law. Yeah it sucks you might get profiled. Stop hanging with people that carry guns, do drugs, or just plain act stupid. Don't bring attention to yourself in a negative way. Have respect for the police. Also use the power to vote. People can bitch all they want but they had a chance at the polls in Ferguson in November to remove the DA from office and didn't. If they spent as much time reading, understanding your local community politics, and less time rioting and blaming others, they might have a better argument.

I'm not sure what "owning up" means in this context. What does a person who is "owning up" do? Apologizes? Reparations? I'm not sure how "owning up" solves anything?

What I took it to mean is you have to accept that your grandfather enacted and supported Jim Crow laws, that until the late 60's segregation was a part of the norm of society in America and as Lyndon Johnson said - you can't suddenly say a man is equal in a race when he's been shackled for centuries - which was his way of laying out programs like affirmative action and outreach programs specific to black communities. Because of the actions of the people before you, its incumbent on you to understand what you take for granted while the African American community still has to fight to achieve - such as the simple respect of driving a car past a policeman and not having to worry that he is running their plates and looking for a reason to pull them over or maybe just hailing a taxi at 11pm.

But he can't talk about white progress as our issue because there were qualified black men 50 years ago to be president. I"m sure there were qualified women, asians, latino's, - As George Carlin said - Politics is an exclusive club - and you ain't in it. But I grew up in a time where every minority had access to the same post high school education (and my high school education wasn't anything special now that I see what my kids have access to), every minority had access to the same factory line job, blue collar, white collar, specialist, military - whatever - we were all on a level playing field for jobs were available to 95% of Americans. And I'm not even talking about all those high paying professional athlete jobs they've taken away from slow uncoordinated white people

So to me, and I think the generations that follow me - that footrace Lyndon Johnson talked about is now equal and has been equal since about 1980. Yes, I'm sure there are pockets of racism - that's never going to go away - people don't like other people - Christians/Muslims, Catholics/Protestants, Japanese/Chinese, Serbs/Croats

"I understand what he says about progress, but no one from my family is getting into Harvard, no one from my family has a shot to be president, no one from my family will ever be considered for a cabinet position - and that rings true for about 90% of white America, so to act as if that was there for all of us all along , all we had to do is just show up and declare we are white - just doesn't ring true to the average guy on the street."

He didn't say that. He just said it's unfair for someone to inherit what they didn't work for and he's right. But it's a inimitable truth that life ain't fair and if you expect it to be, you're going to be waiting for a long time. It's not fair that some jackass that's not me wins a $300M lottery. It's unfair that Dale Earnhardt's ugly ass has the hottest girlfriend I've ever seen. It's unfair that we have to read goldie's posts for the 12th year in a row for just making the mistake of coming here when UNC is playing.

Also, on a semi-related note, cops in this country are out of control, shooting people every week that could have been subdued less harmfully. But from what I've read about Michael Brown, he sort of provoked the guy into taking those steps. There was another guy killed by STL cops on video around the same time who was clearly fucked up and had a knife and cops gunned him down from 20-30 ft. away that, IMO, was far more egregious that Brown getting shot by a cop he was trying beat up.

It is an issue that needs to be addressed but I'm not sure how Michael Brown got to be the flashpoint for it.