The Goat Pen

so I guess the league gives us a Dwight Howard ejection as an "I owe you one"

I would rather just win their "lottery" this summer as pay back. If any non-playoff team deserves a kick back, it would be the Raps.

Get Calderon the fuck outta this team already.

People are now saying Lowry might be traded first with Doug Smith being the shameless mouthpiece for the management.

We traded a guaranteed lottery pick for this guy and didn't even give him a fair chance before labeling him a failure.

Seriously, watching this team squander away any small chance they had at legitimacy at every turn this season for mediocrity or worse has been frustrating at best.

The reason you "think" about trading Lowry is because he has more trade value than Calderon due to his age and his inexpensive contract. It's the reason BC did the original deal to get him. How many team's are going to give you something of value for an aging PG who runs a good offense but can't defend his position? Calderon is only good to the teams that need cap space or to avoid the luxury tax and taking a simple look at the ending payrolls of most of the team's in the league.... it's not a big problem for many which means he won't fetch a decent return. IF Boston decides they still want to take a run at the playoffs this year, rather than rebuild, there is definitely a home for Calderon.... but I think Boston will look to be sellers before buyers.

as for the year, yeah, it's been disappointing but I don't think any of us would have thought they would have won as many games as they have IF you were told before the season started that your starting front line would have missed half the season, and your starting backcourt (Fields/Lowry) almost as much. The team has done pretty darn well with basically their bench. It hasn't been a failure by any stretch of the imagination. Davis has shown he can play; Amir has more than earned his money, and Ross is probably the best rookie we have had since Vince. We just don't have a guy to give the ball to late in games and it's cost us at least 5.

Congrats Toronto, you've just won a brand new Rudy Gay.

Looks like Memphis gets Tayshaun & Austin Daye.

We get Rudy Gay and another stiff for Calderon, Ed Davis and a 2nd round pick. Detroit also involved.

I like this trade for finally getting rid of Calderon but hate it for giving up Ed Davis because he was finally starting to get it together and more because this may mean we could be stuck with Bargnani. This trade makes DeRozan expandable so we still have some tradeable assets plus Bargnani that we could try and turn into a PF and possibly a backup PG cause Lucas isn't good enough with Lowry's tendency to get hurt.

This trade was another one of those "let's make a move to get a player fans think is good" rather than a trade for a guy the team really needs. Yes, Gay/DeRozan will be better than any DeRozan/(fill in blank here) combo that we have but it means less minutes for Ross (who frankly, I believe, will be better than both when all is said and done) and until V and Bargs hit their stride (which will be in at least 3-4 weeks), we will be pitiful in the front court guaranteeing that we hand over that pick to OKC in the 5-8 range. And, although I love Lucas at 1M per year, he is not a good back up PG. This team isn't bad enough to guarantee the 1-4 slot which keeps our pick, and yet not nearly good enough to get to the playoffs without Calderon/Davis. Which means we also don't have a back up PG solution for next year since we can't draft one and we most certainly will not be able to sign a good one.

It's not the worst trade by far, but we must be paying more for the 2/3 position than any team in the league that doesn't have an all star at those positions. I can't imagine any other team is even close. It's one of those trades a GM who is desperate makes.... and was the only reason that I wanted BC to be fired earlier or commit to him longer term. Instead.... no long term commitment, result is a short term trade. At least he didn't gut the roster to make this one so finding a replacement shouldn't be as hard as I feared it might be.

Sorry to see Ed go, other than that... I love it

Lowery now is the sole starting point guard, some players excel with internal competition, some don't (see TJ ford). Make him the bonafide #1 and watch him flourish.

Amir & Ed were redundant, if Bargnani & Val come back and play half decent we will be in the eastern conference playoffs next year.

This does put a wrench in the "Tank for Wiggins" movement though

sotola wrote:guaranteeing that we hand over that pick to OKC in the 5-8 range

have you seen this year's prospects? this is the perfect draft to give up a 5-8 pick

sotola wrote:This trade was another one of those "let's make a move to get a player fans think is good" rather than a trade for a guy the team really needs.

Yup.

who won this deal? Ed Davis, an expiring deal & a 2nd rounder in exchange for the best SF we've had since Vince

Sotola,please give me a better alternative, show me the list of free agents lining up to sign here when Jose's contract comes off the books

Dot - I didn't say it was a HORRIBLE trade or that we would get much more for Calderone. I clearly said a couple posts before the Gay trade that I didn't expect to get a lot for Calderon since he can't defend his position and he is aging. I just don't think giving up Davis was a good idea.

BUT, I also don't think Gay is incredible for a guy making almost 20M a year. It's not like you got Kobe Bryant or Wade for him. You got a guy that has never made the all star team but gets paid like one.

And he is at the position that we are probably stronger at than any other (....sad to say but true). And we gave up a guy that was taking leaps and bounds at his position. Gay wasn't even the best player out of the one of the worst drafts in NBA history.

This trade makes us different.... not better. Without Calderon, this team is not playoff bound despite Rondo's absence. I hope I am wrong but I think this team will take a couple steps back over the remainder of the year and without a bonafide back up.... not likely to gain much more next year. I can only hope that if we fall where I think (5th to 8th), that we get lucky enough to win the lottery and fall into the top 3. If we don't... I think we just added at least one more year to the re-building plan.

Not the worst trade..... not the best. I preferred to stand pat in this situation rather than give up a good, young prospect for a slightly above average player.

As for Jose - some might not like him but I hope he creates another PG controversy in Memphis. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Jose starting in the playoffs as Memphis makes a run. the dude was never appreciated in TO and he continually outplayed guys that BC brought in to replace him. Conley should be at least moderately worried about Jose. I wish Jose the best. I hope TO fans never even think of booing this classy gentlemen.

small forward is our weakest position, its been that way since Mo Pete left

how many games have we lost by 1-5 points? we finally have a guy who can get a whistle, create his own shot & close ball games

and Gay will occupy the other team's best wing defender, opening up Demar's floorgame

I like Ed, but we sold high

FYI - Jose is going to Detroit, Daye & Tayshaun are going to Memphis

T Dot O Dot wrote:who won this deal?

Memphis in a landslide.

They picked up a nice young (and cheap) 3rd big in Davis (who also gives them some insurance if Zach misses any games), but they also got 2 wings that will help them more than Gay. Prince gives them much better defense at SF, and both Prince and Daye give them better outside shooting, while not dominating the ball. And they got out from under Gay's toxic contract.

T Dot O Dot wrote: we finally have a guy who can get a whistle, create his own shot & close ball games

Getting to the line isn't really his game. He's very athletic, but he has a mediocre handle. 'Creating his own shot' is usually dribbling down the clock and launching a long 2.

dot- if you measure a trade by the "best player available" then we won. If you measure a trade by what you need vs. what you have... Memphis.
If you think paying Gay almost 20M is good business, then so be it... I can't argue with it since I don't see a 20M player and the stats don't back it up. I see a guy that is very comparable to DeMar and has the same reputation of not being a great late game player. It's also a heck of alot easier to be a late game player when you have guys around you that can take the gambles more often (Randolph, Gasol, and even Connoly).

it makes us different, that's all. this team needs more than a slightly better DeMar to win games at the end.

evidence tonight - Gay wouldn't have got that call either.

tomorrow or the day after.... league memo.... "the league recognizes they made an error at the end of the Raps/Hawks game and that a foul should have been called against DeMar De Rozan".... I am almost sick of it. I can almost guarantee we are in the top 3 this off season come lottery time (becuz the NBA does pay back). Otherwise, even the best of Canadian fans like myself will turn the NBA off becuz the officiating is becoming horrible and I can't imagine it's not by design.

sotola wrote:
evidence tonight - Gay wouldn't have got that call either.

Yeah, he would have

and I replayed Demar's putback 3-4 times, he went up weak, it's like he did the jumping into the defender move dwayne wade does at the 3 pt line, except he did it at point blank range

we will still get a 3rd public apology though

Sad to see Tay go but it's understandable. As for someDaye, that day never came. He's pretty awful. He can hit the wide open 3 but he's weak, weak, weak. He was shooting a blistering 29% over the last 10 games.

I'm curious about Jose. Obviously, he's got a great Assist to TO ratio, which should help Detroit since they've been turning the ball over like crazy. I wish he played D well. Knight could use a mentor. It also frees up a lot of cap space so that's the worst case scenario. How it helps the team this year is yet to be seen.

I'm not 100% satisfied with the trade but I would say positives outweigh the negatives. Don't even care about who wins the trade, the question is did we improve and the answer is yes.

I don't think getting Rudy Gay is the problem here. He fills the position where we've been the weakest for a long time with some real talent at SF. I don't know why Sotola would think that's the position of strength when we've been trotting out the likes of Fields and Anderson. Is he overpaid? Yes. But for a team that's gonna just end up burning through that money with scrubs like Fields or Kleiza year after year and end up having to fill the slot with scrubs like Anderson, who's turning into a chucker, his price tag isn't as high as it would be for other teams.

It also gets rid of Calderon and gives the full starting gig back to Lowry where it belongs. That's a plus. Remove the temptation from Casey. Disagree that he outplayed anybody. TJ Ford would've started over him if not for the freak injury against Al Horford and Lowry never got a fair shake here. Yes, we do need a better backup PG but that's something you can get in other trades and Colangelo surely can't be done here. Not without trading Bargnani....I hope.

Losing Ed Davis sucks but while I'm torn on whether he should've been a deal breaker I realize that's more because of what it means with regards to Bargnani and the possibility that we may be stuck with him for at least another year. You have to give to get and despite what Sotola thinks PF was our real position of strength.

Now just gotta get rid of Bargnani and DeRozan has also become expandable IMO in a right deal, not that he ever was untouchable or anything. Need a backup PG and decent big to replace Davis and Bargnani. Not gonna be easy but doable.

Yes, this probably puts us out of tank race next year to get Wiggins but I never thought that was a realistic goal anyway. Just a real bad timing all around. As for the pick we owe OKC, agree with TDot this draft is the perfect draft to lose it. Just want that out of the way ASAP. 5-8 might not even hurt as much in a draft like next. Of course, 14th pick is ideal and I think this trade helps towards that goal. Not even sure winning the lottery would be all that good in next year's draft. If NBA wants to help us or pay us back, let them do it in Wiggin's draft if we miss the playoffs again.