The Goat Pen

Fifer wrote:Uh huh, if they jumped of the child market where claims are low, why would they stay in an adult market with no underwriting?

They jumped out as a political statement, imo (hence the announcement by the 3 biggest all on the same day, to make the political statement). Also they were going to have to cover it before any of the requirements that people join occurred.

All kind of chicken little it appears. Reminds me of all the insurance companies threatening to leave California. Some did for a short time. All came back. Why? The market is too big.

They aren't going to run. You don't leave a trillion dollar businesses just because your profit isn't quite as lucrative as before. Especially when there are some models that predict their profit margins may actually increase

The assistant attorney general hasn't been fighting in the same trench I've been in for 30 years.

When its cheaper for people to pay the penalty, where's this vast influx of new premium paying insureds gonna come from? The only buyers are gonna be the unhealthy. Losses will soar and the suppliers will be gone, leaving state governments to clean up the mess.

Fifer wrote:The assistant attorney general hasn't been fighting in the same trench I've been in for 30 years.

When its cheaper for people to pay the penalty, where's this vast influx of new premium paying insureds gonna come from? The only buyers are gonna be the unhealthy. Losses will soar and the suppliers will be gone, leaving state governments to clean up the mess.

Because paying the penalty is throwing good money out with no return. The belief is that most will just get the premium as opposed to just getting nothing for the tax.

It's not like they haven't tried this before. Ask Romney. Most people went on and got the insurance in Massachusetts. There's 98% coverage in Massachusetts.

I'm going to bed. We'll see as this develops, but mark my words, there will be national health insurance within ten years.

WE already have national health insurance. It's called medicare and medicaid. What a nice racket the insurance companies have. They insure working people who are basically healthy, sharing losses with one another in the industry, capitalize the profits and when most health care costs occur (80% of health care costs occur the last 2 years of life which for the average American is between 76 and 78 years old), the subordinate themselves to the govt.

That's a nice racket that none are going to go away from too quickly.

The penalty will be $695 a person (or 2.5% of income) and $342.50 per child...annually. If premiums are comparable or less, then this program is in no way sustainable.

Fifer wrote:Uh huh, if they jumped out of the child market where claims are low, why would they stay in an adult market with no underwriting? Try buying home insurance in Florida from anyone other than the state subsidized plan. Same difference, if the companies know they can't profit they turn tail and run, and leave it for the government to deal with.

my home insurance has always been w/private carrier, and same goes for everybody i know in florida.

BCBS of Alabama has a kids-only plan. It's called "All Kids".

Anyway, my issue with the so called Obamacare plan is that it was hastily made. Sloppy, even. Contradictions on coverages and waiting periods. I know that politics may have made the overall message "just do it and now" but that will not help hospitals.

Americans are spoiled. They want nice hotel like rooms, 200 cable channels, free wifi and food on the level of a medium to upscale chain (think O'Charley's or Ruby Tuesday's). They also want their local hospital to have a top of the line CT, MRI, and offer redundant services as the hospital the next town over. They also do not want to wait weeks or even months for non-emergent or elective procedures. By in large, we will not be able to do these things as easily once the full plan comes to fruition. Visit a NHS hospital in England for the model we will need to adopt to make this plan feasible.

Another fear is red tape. BCBS, for example, is easier for hospitals to work with and get reimbursement than CMS. Also, of the uninsured, about 1 in 5 qualify for MedicAid. They just don't know it or possibly don't have the ability to get to get on the program. The working poor who do not qualify for MedicAid and can't afford private insurance premiums will be aided with this, though.

Gator by God's Grace wrote:

Fifer wrote:Uh huh, if they jumped out of the child market where claims are low, why would they stay in an adult market with no underwriting? Try buying home insurance in Florida from anyone other than the state subsidized plan. Same difference, if the companies know they can't profit they turn tail and run, and leave it for the government to deal with.

my home insurance has always been w/private carrier, and same goes for everybody i know in florida.

My mother, brother, and sister in Fort Lauderdale all have Citizens, with a whopper of a deductatble and jaw dropping premiums, becuase it's the only thing they can get. State Farm took a walk on my mother and step father. He had been with them since 1958. I've been in this business long enough to know that these companies are in it to make a buck, a lot of bucks, and when they can't, they fold the tent and go. If they can to make money in individual health insurance after 2014, everybody and his brother will be pouring into that business, if they can't, trust me, they'll be gone.

My fucking power has been out since 5:30 last night. Fuck !

I've already watched an interview with a small business owner that has 48 employees. He has stated that if he expands, he'll pay the penalty and I think he implied he'd also drop the insurance he currently carries on the 48.

another hit on Holder. The mole inside the DOJ is killing him

http://www.rollcall.com/news/darrell_is ... 828-1.html

and that's why the administration did not want to release all documents to Congress...

"Americans are spoiled. They want nice hotel like rooms, 200 cable channels, free wifi and food on the level of a medium to upscale chain (think O'Charley's or Ruby Tuesday's)"

Maybe somebody should start a Priceline for health insurance and medical procedures...

I don't know what the big deal is about health insurance. I didn't have it for years, and then a few years ago I called the local BCBS dealer and now I pay $160 a month for pretty good coverage. I really only got it to cover a catastrophic event, but the couple of times I've gone to the doctor since I got the insurance, I only had to pay $25. I would've still gotten out cheaper to not have insurance at all (I think I would've had to pay a couple of hundred dollars out of pocket each time, whereas I've paid thousands in premiums over the past couple of years), but I'm not complaining...

Cost of health insurance for the healthy is not the issue. The cost of insurance for the unhealthy/healthy-but-medicated is very high. To offset the costs the insurance companies eat for the sick, healthy contributors need to participate. The funny thing is, before they started pushing back on it, that's what insurance companies wanted: the Individual Mandate. They changed course a bit, and funneled $200M in negative ads against the ACA, because they lost the battle to keep some of the provisions about coverage for the insured who exceed a cap out of the bill.

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I'm at a point where I think my company basically lies about their contribution to make us feel like we are getting a great deal.

I pretty much think I"m covering more than half the cost of the monthly premium now

Its all basically arbitrary, isn't it? The company just knows that an employee is worth a certain amount in compensation that they are willing to pay, and any portion that goes to insurance, government, wheoever is just what they would have been willing to pay straight to the employee anyway.

well I think part of it is also the value of providing it to the employees for the benefit of themselves.