The Goat Pen

UNEMPLOYMENT

From the WSJ:

One reason the unemployment rate may have remained persistently high: The sharp cuts in state and local government spending in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, and the layoffs those cuts wrought.

The Labor Department’s establishment survey of employers — the jobs count that it bases its payroll figures on — shows that the government has been steadily shedding workers since the crisis struck, with 586,000 fewer jobs than in December 2008. Friday’s employment report showed the cuts continued in April, with 15,000 government jobs lost.

This is not politics, but simple numbers. Sorry if it conflicts with your previously assumed narrative . . .

Bklyn wrote:UNEMPLOYMENT

From the WSJ:

One reason the unemployment rate may have remained persistently high: The sharp cuts in state and local government spending in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, and the layoffs those cuts wrought.

The Labor Department’s establishment survey of employers — the jobs count that it bases its payroll figures on — shows that the government has been steadily shedding workers since the crisis struck, with 586,000 fewer jobs than in December 2008. Friday’s employment report showed the cuts continued in April, with 15,000 government jobs lost.

This is not politics, but simple numbers. Sorry if it conflicts with your previously assumed narrative . . .

I see your point, but it's Kind of a meaningless graph, IMO, picking a starting point where government employment was the highest and then ending where government employment was shrinking. A better graph would show non government employment at 2008 and then compare nongovernment employment at 2012.

This graph is probably a better indicator.

You can get political with hard straight numbers as well. It's all in the presentation.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000001

Fast and Furious

A more in-depth, nuanced look at why things unfolded the way they did (and whether it really is a controversy to the level some want/think it to be)...

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2 ... ous-truth/

I have always been skeptical of the claim of purposefully handing weapons over for the sake of a gun control argument. It just doesn't make political sense. Not much upside, but a ton of downside in such an idea.

Bklyn wrote:Fast and Furious

A more in-depth, nuanced look at why things unfolded the way they did (and whether it really is a controversy to the level some want/think it to be)...

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2 ... ous-truth/

"

I read that earlier in the week. The crux of it is

"Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently someone disputes it because Holder and now Obama are fighting to release documents regarding it, and secondly, Holder is in charge of the prosecutors that "hamstrung" them.

The bottom line is they fucked up big time and created a program that allowed thousands - not a few but thousands of guns to fall into the hands of killers with little or no ability to track them - and they knew that going in.

The real issue is - did someone above the assholes at the BATF know it, approve and push for the program and are now trying to cover their ass at its colossal failure resulting in the death of a border patrol agent and quite possibly many more Mexican citizens. Holder has been caught in a lie regarding that and President Obama is using executive privilege to save him.

US Attorneys General take broad policy direction from Washington (Holder), but they do function largely independent from those and are only truly beholden to the interpretation of law. So, Holder was in charge, but if current law says you can't prosecute a guy for buying guns in bulk, even if 8 hours later those guns are "sold" secondarily and used in commission of a crime, then your hands are tied. I don't know what Holder could do to stop that.

I think Holder and Obama are fighting to release documents because the docs that Issa wants (which have been viewed by the special investigator, iirc) the Administration doesn't want discussed as part of public discourse. I can kinda understand that...especially if the memos are about views on the program, not the merits or legality of the program, in an election year.

Then common sense would tell you not to enter into a program that funnels guns to Mexican drug cartels.

seriously, does saying they could legally do little to prevent straw purchases make this any less contemptible?

The whole idea of them not being able to do much in the first place makes you have to question why they decided to do this at all, especially after the failure of a much, much smaller but similar program that was initiated under Bush with the same results.

Holder is attempting to distance himself from the program due to the death of the border patrol agent and lied. Even Democrats at this point are bailing on him due to public sentiment on the matter.

That's not Obama's fault.

eCat wrote:Then common sense would tell you not to enter into a program that funnels guns to Mexican drug cartels.

Is that what the program does, or did they just allow what was already occurring and try to monitor it in some underfunded and legally handcuffed version of "The Wire?"

I don't really give a shit about Obama in this other than him protecting Holder.

And honestly I don't give that much concern over Holder. The BATF however needs to be disbanded and prosecuted. They are stormtroopers with their own agenda , and sometimes used as the enforcement branch of the president's agenda , to go after the citizenry they see as a threat to establishment.

I hate them.

hell,just by typing that I'm sure it will show up on some black flag list

Bklyn wrote:

eCat wrote:Then common sense would tell you not to enter into a program that funnels guns to Mexican drug cartels.

Is that what the program does, or did they just allow what was already occurring and try to monitor it in some underfunded and legally handcuffed version of "The Wire?"

The issue was allowing those guns to be purchased by applying pressure on gun dealers to sell guns to people they'd otherwise refuse because they know they are straw purchases going across the border.

Holder is attempting to distance himself from the program due to the death of the border patrol agent and lied

Not having read this in detail, what did Holder lie about?

Holder lied. Mexicans died.

Owlman wrote:

Holder is attempting to distance himself from the program due to the death of the border patrol agent and lied

Not having read this in detail, what did Holder lie about?

it centers around him saying he didn't know about the program until much later and Issa uncovering emails (thru a whistleblower I believe) that proved Holder wrong. Holder's tone changed after that regarding his participation in the hearings.

much later?? Much later after it started? Much later after the person died or much later after they lost the guns?

I thought this was instituted several years ago and continued under this administration?

I thought this was instituted several years ago and continued under this administration?

That's certainly Team Democrat's viewpoint.

Problem is that I need a good summary (that I am willing to take the time to read)

(SHORT SUMMARY)

He testified to congress in May 2011 that he had learned of the program in only "the last few weeks" when documents proved he knew of the program going back to at least 2009.

Agent Terry died in 2010.

Nobody cries when El Gordo dies...