Florida State Seminoles

The Forum Without Decorum.

Moderators: eCat, hedge, Cletus

User avatar
Bklyn
All-American
Posts: 8254
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:08 pm
College Hoops Affiliation: Howard
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The County of Kings

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Bklyn » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:33 pm

UNEMPLOYMENT

From the WSJ:
One reason the unemployment rate may have remained persistently high: The sharp cuts in state and local government spending in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, and the layoffs those cuts wrought.

The Labor Department’s establishment survey of employers — the jobs count that it bases its payroll figures on — shows that the government has been steadily shedding workers since the crisis struck, with 586,000 fewer jobs than in December 2008. Friday’s employment report showed the cuts continued in April, with 15,000 government jobs lost.

This is not politics, but simple numbers. Sorry if it conflicts with your previously assumed narrative . . .


Image
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

User avatar
sardis
All-American
Posts: 6465
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:25 pm
College Hoops Affiliation: Villanova
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by sardis » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:12 am

Bklyn wrote:UNEMPLOYMENT

From the WSJ:
One reason the unemployment rate may have remained persistently high: The sharp cuts in state and local government spending in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, and the layoffs those cuts wrought.

The Labor Department’s establishment survey of employers — the jobs count that it bases its payroll figures on — shows that the government has been steadily shedding workers since the crisis struck, with 586,000 fewer jobs than in December 2008. Friday’s employment report showed the cuts continued in April, with 15,000 government jobs lost.

This is not politics, but simple numbers. Sorry if it conflicts with your previously assumed narrative . . .


Image
I see your point, but it's Kind of a meaningless graph, IMO, picking a starting point where government employment was the highest and then ending where government employment was shrinking. A better graph would show non government employment at 2008 and then compare nongovernment employment at 2012.

User avatar
sardis
All-American
Posts: 6465
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:25 pm
College Hoops Affiliation: Villanova
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by sardis » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:18 am

This graph is probably a better indicator.

You can get political with hard straight numbers as well. It's all in the presentation.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000001

User avatar
Bklyn
All-American
Posts: 8254
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:08 pm
College Hoops Affiliation: Howard
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The County of Kings

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Bklyn » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:11 am

Fast and Furious

A more in-depth, nuanced look at why things unfolded the way they did (and whether it really is a controversy to the level some want/think it to be)...

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2 ... ous-truth/
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

User avatar
sardis
All-American
Posts: 6465
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:25 pm
College Hoops Affiliation: Villanova
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by sardis » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:22 am

I have always been skeptical of the claim of purposefully handing weapons over for the sake of a gun control argument. It just doesn't make political sense. Not much upside, but a ton of downside in such an idea.

User avatar
eCat
Mr. Pissant
Posts: 23265
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:22 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Kentucky
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The mediocre but almost livable city of Cincinnati

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:23 am

Bklyn wrote:Fast and Furious

A more in-depth, nuanced look at why things unfolded the way they did (and whether it really is a controversy to the level some want/think it to be)...

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2 ... ous-truth/
"

I read that earlier in the week. The crux of it is

"Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently someone disputes it because Holder and now Obama are fighting to release documents regarding it, and secondly, Holder is in charge of the prosecutors that "hamstrung" them.

The bottom line is they fucked up big time and created a program that allowed thousands - not a few but thousands of guns to fall into the hands of killers with little or no ability to track them - and they knew that going in.

The real issue is - did someone above the assholes at the BATF know it, approve and push for the program and are now trying to cover their ass at its colossal failure resulting in the death of a border patrol agent and quite possibly many more Mexican citizens. Holder has been caught in a lie regarding that and President Obama is using executive privilege to save him.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

User avatar
Bklyn
All-American
Posts: 8254
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:08 pm
College Hoops Affiliation: Howard
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The County of Kings

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Bklyn » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:28 am

US Attorneys General take broad policy direction from Washington (Holder), but they do function largely independent from those and are only truly beholden to the interpretation of law. So, Holder was in charge, but if current law says you can't prosecute a guy for buying guns in bulk, even if 8 hours later those guns are "sold" secondarily and used in commission of a crime, then your hands are tied. I don't know what Holder could do to stop that.

I think Holder and Obama are fighting to release documents because the docs that Issa wants (which have been viewed by the special investigator, iirc) the Administration doesn't want discussed as part of public discourse. I can kinda understand that...especially if the memos are about views on the program, not the merits or legality of the program, in an election year.
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

User avatar
eCat
Mr. Pissant
Posts: 23265
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:22 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Kentucky
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The mediocre but almost livable city of Cincinnati

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:32 am

Then common sense would tell you not to enter into a program that funnels guns to Mexican drug cartels.

seriously, does saying they could legally do little to prevent straw purchases make this any less contemptible?

The whole idea of them not being able to do much in the first place makes you have to question why they decided to do this at all, especially after the failure of a much, much smaller but similar program that was initiated under Bush with the same results.

Holder is attempting to distance himself from the program due to the death of the border patrol agent and lied. Even Democrats at this point are bailing on him due to public sentiment on the matter.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

User avatar
aTm
Muad'Dib
Posts: 8787
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:25 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Texas A&M
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Big Cat/Tiger/Lion/Etc
Location: Inner Loop, Houston, TX

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by aTm » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:33 am

That's not Obama's fault.
Sure, I could have stayed in the past. I could have even been king. But in my own way, I am king.

User avatar
Bklyn
All-American
Posts: 8254
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:08 pm
College Hoops Affiliation: Howard
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The County of Kings

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Bklyn » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:39 am

eCat wrote:Then common sense would tell you not to enter into a program that funnels guns to Mexican drug cartels.
Is that what the program does, or did they just allow what was already occurring and try to monitor it in some underfunded and legally handcuffed version of "The Wire?"
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

User avatar
eCat
Mr. Pissant
Posts: 23265
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:22 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Kentucky
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The mediocre but almost livable city of Cincinnati

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:41 am

I don't really give a shit about Obama in this other than him protecting Holder.

And honestly I don't give that much concern over Holder. The BATF however needs to be disbanded and prosecuted. They are stormtroopers with their own agenda , and sometimes used as the enforcement branch of the president's agenda , to go after the citizenry they see as a threat to establishment.

I hate them.

hell,just by typing that I'm sure it will show up on some black flag list
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

User avatar
eCat
Mr. Pissant
Posts: 23265
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:22 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Kentucky
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The mediocre but almost livable city of Cincinnati

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:43 am

Bklyn wrote:
eCat wrote:Then common sense would tell you not to enter into a program that funnels guns to Mexican drug cartels.
Is that what the program does, or did they just allow what was already occurring and try to monitor it in some underfunded and legally handcuffed version of "The Wire?"
The issue was allowing those guns to be purchased by applying pressure on gun dealers to sell guns to people they'd otherwise refuse because they know they are straw purchases going across the border.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

User avatar
Owlman
Senior
Posts: 4222
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:04 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Rice
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: Louisiana

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Owlman » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:53 am

Holder is attempting to distance himself from the program due to the death of the border patrol agent and lied
Not having read this in detail, what did Holder lie about?
My Dad is my hero still.

User avatar
Jungle Rat
The Pied Piper of Crazy
Posts: 30194
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:38 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Florida
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Croc/Gator/Etc
Location: Crows Parents Basement

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Jungle Rat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:00 am

Holder lied. Mexicans died.

User avatar
eCat
Mr. Pissant
Posts: 23265
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:22 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Kentucky
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The mediocre but almost livable city of Cincinnati

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:02 am

Owlman wrote:
Holder is attempting to distance himself from the program due to the death of the border patrol agent and lied
Not having read this in detail, what did Holder lie about?
it centers around him saying he didn't know about the program until much later and Issa uncovering emails (thru a whistleblower I believe) that proved Holder wrong. Holder's tone changed after that regarding his participation in the hearings.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

User avatar
Owlman
Senior
Posts: 4222
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:04 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Rice
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: Louisiana

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Owlman » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:06 am

much later?? Much later after it started? Much later after the person died or much later after they lost the guns?

I thought this was instituted several years ago and continued under this administration?
My Dad is my hero still.

User avatar
aTm
Muad'Dib
Posts: 8787
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:25 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Texas A&M
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Big Cat/Tiger/Lion/Etc
Location: Inner Loop, Houston, TX

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by aTm » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:08 am

I thought this was instituted several years ago and continued under this administration?
That's certainly Team Democrat's viewpoint.
Sure, I could have stayed in the past. I could have even been king. But in my own way, I am king.

User avatar
Owlman
Senior
Posts: 4222
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:04 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Rice
Preferred Barbecue Style: Tomato!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: Louisiana

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Owlman » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:11 am

Problem is that I need a good summary (that I am willing to take the time to read)

(SHORT SUMMARY)
My Dad is my hero still.

User avatar
eCat
Mr. Pissant
Posts: 23265
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:22 am
College Hoops Affiliation: Kentucky
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc
Location: The mediocre but almost livable city of Cincinnati

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:12 am

He testified to congress in May 2011 that he had learned of the program in only "the last few weeks" when documents proved he knew of the program going back to at least 2009.

Agent Terry died in 2010.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

User avatar
hedge
Legend
Posts: 26680
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:09 am
College Hoops Affiliation: North Carolina
Preferred Barbecue Style: Vinegar!
Mascot Fight: Bear/Grizzly/Etc

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by hedge » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:12 am

Nobody cries when El Gordo dies...
I want someone's ass blistered in the middle of Thanksgiving Square.

Post Reply