The Goat Pen

Gator by God's Grace wrote:who sponsors your counseling center IB? the gummint? a church? is it for-profit?

are you a counselor? an admin?

its freebie, church. no sponsoring needed (no money needed to run it), we are all volunteers. we just use church facilities

we only try to help people if they come to us and ask for it. and we don't do anything with people we think are BPD (because we can't help them and we believe that if we tried, they would just sue us.)

What is BPD?

Also, if you really believe that you can't help them, why would even attempt to try? Why would the possibility of being sued have anything at all to do with your decision not to help them if you really believe that you cannot help them in the first place?

hedge wrote:What is BPD?

http://www.avoiceformen.com/women/borde ... y-asshole/

AVfM wrote:A long-term pattern of unstable or turbulent emotions, including frequent displays of inappropriate anger.

A pattern of impulsive actions and chaotic relationships, including, but not limited to impulsiveness with money, substance abuse, sexual relationships, binge eating, and shoplifting.

Intolerant, often hostile reaction to being alone.

Repeated crises and acts of self-injury, such as wrist cutting or overdosing.

...and....

A remarkable facility for lying and manipulation, particularly for sympathy and adulation, but also to enlist action from others that will further their personal objectives for revenge or retaliation.

A propensity to make false allegations of rape, sexual abuse and domestic violence.

A near bottomless capacity for vengeance over the least, or even imagined, slights.

A sadistic pleasure in causing unwarranted harm to others who are perceived to be enemies, or even those determined to not love them “enough.”

The capacity to justify and rationalize any abusive behavior, no matter how extreme or how innocent the victim. No moral compass.

The repetitive demand that others sympathize with them, even as they cause destruction in the lives of innocents.

The distorted mindset that the abuse they inflict is not abuse, but that objecting to it or fighting back is abusive to them.

Hedge, we can't help these people.... they need to want to change themselves. I've never seen it happen.

hedge wrote:Also, if you really believe that you can't help them, why would even attempt to try? Why would the possibility of being sued have anything at all to do with your decision not to help them if you really believe that you cannot help them in the first place?

If we attempt to "try" and help a Borderline, these people are calculating and clever enough to seek VENGENCE out against the center if we say something to them that they might not like to hear. And since they are (by their very nature) amoral, they would have no qualms about suing a church.

Evil is evil. 100 years ago, if you had BPD, the Catholic Church was called in to perform the rite of Excorcism. I am not even kidding.

That pretty much describes me. Why would I want to change, even if I could? So I could become somebody like.... you? No thanks....

"A near bottomless capacity for vengeance over the least, or even imagined, slights."

I certainly feel this towards you, IB...

hedge wrote:"A near bottomless capacity for vengeance over the least, or even imagined, slights."

I certainly feel this towards you, IB...

I don't care.

Gator by God,

I volunteer as a counselor in the marital counseling dept. Our primary goal is to try and save marriaged that are ending. There has been a lot of marriages ending over the last 4 years, (pretty much always a loss of $$$$$ os the cause.) It gets dicey when the divorcing spouse (pretty much always the wife) involves her parents when they are the ones encouraging the divorce.

divorces in FL are down because of the economy- folks too broke to split up.

Gator by God's Grace wrote:divorces in FL are down because of the economy- folks too broke to split up.

I don't dispute that divorce in Florida is down, but this being too broke to split up mystifies me. I'm finding that the reason people are splitting up is specifically BECAUSE they are now (for what may be the first time in their lives) broke.

What Gator is describing are two people too broke to split up and try to find a place to live on their own, when neither of them can do that.

What IB is describing is a woman with a job and a man unemployed and she's tired of carrying his water, since she can survive without his dead weight (the "I can do bad by myself, why do I need you" principle).

innocentbystander wrote:Gator by God,

I volunteer as a counselor in the marital counseling dept. Our primary goal is to try and save marriaged that are ending. There has been a lot of marriages ending over the last 4 years, (pretty much always a loss of $$$$$ os the cause.) It gets dicey when the divorcing spouse (pretty much always the wife) involves her parents when they are the ones encouraging the divorce.

How do you figure you are qualified to counsel these people?

I've never quite followed Fast and Furious because I never thought it that important. I know with Reagan it was arms for hostages. What was sought with the ATF weapons? Information? Rogue agents wanting money?

And I don't want no shitbaggery Google link from you, ATM...

Bklyn wrote:What Gator is describing are two people too broke to split up and try to find a place to live on their own, when neither of them can do that.

What IB is describing is a woman with a job and a man unemployed and she's tired of carrying his water, since she can survive without his dead weight (the "I can do bad by myself, why do I need you" principle).

Typically, it is simply a matter of terrible timing.

Married couple is happy. Young parents, very young kids, both parents working, her folks or his folks pitching in to watch their grandchildren, lots of vacations, everything is hunky-dory, they buy a $500,000 4-bedroom, 3-bath house in 2005.

Ooops. They timed it wrong.

Fast forward to 2012. One of the parents has lost his or her job (doesn't really matter which one) the house they had in 2005, they had to give it up in 2010 (bank foreclosed when they refused to make payments after the 5-year teaser rate went up, and they couldn't refinance since they were upside down by more than $250,000) so the whole family went and moved in with either his parents or (typically) her parents. Their credit is obliterated. They haven't had a vacation in years. Their children are always complaining and crying. What was once a happy marriage is no more because they don't have their "things." Her dad was always able to keep a roof over daughter's head so she can't understand why her husband can't do the same, and her dad tells her to divorce him (even if he never stopped working.)

He doesn't want the divorce. He comes to us to ask us if we can help save his marriage. We have to coax the woman to bother to show up (in most cases, she wont show up, her mind is made up so what's the point) but if they do, they typically get up and walk out of the meeting because any conversation where they start to hear that they need to "settle" is a non-starter for them. One case she brings her father to tell me what an asshole I am being for trying to save the marriage.

Sometimes its worse than just bad timing. I had one where the marriage was going along fine until he found out from a close friend that his wife was having an affair (and had been for a few years.) When he came home from work to talk to her about it, she calls the police. Why? Because she was BPD and was scared of him. He had never laid a hand on her in his life, but now (after he found out) she's scared? Yeah, she is scared of having a conversation where she is made out to be the bad guy and is responsible for anything. Police show up and tell him that they either have to arrest him right there or he can leave on his own accord. A month later they are divorced and she keeps the house (that he must continue to pay for) and the kids say they want to stay with mom and their "new" daddy (boyfriend who thinks its okay to sleep over now.) That was pretty much the worst I've seen.

And these bitter, divorced men are talking to the single men. And the result is the single men are choosing NOT to get married. I mean look around, marriage rates have really dropped off significantly and to me the most logical reason is that for men, why should they get married? So, these men turn to internet porn because its "free." I've had to say a couple sermons about the marriage drop-off the past few months (one on porn), I've seen way too many people in the pews crying (mostly young single women who want to get married but have never been asked even once) very depressing.

Cletus wrote:

innocentbystander wrote:Gator by God,

I volunteer as a counselor in the marital counseling dept. Our primary goal is to try and save marriaged that are ending. There has been a lot of marriages ending over the last 4 years, (pretty much always a loss of $$$$$ os the cause.) It gets dicey when the divorcing spouse (pretty much always the wife) involves her parents when they are the ones encouraging the divorce.

How do you figure you are qualified to counsel these people?

I read a lot.

Ours is a free center, supported by lay-person staff. We tell people up front we are not professionals but we will do the best we can. For people who don't have any money (but they just want to save their marriage) we try to help.

And I thought my world was fucked up. Prison, drug addiction, bizarre sexual proclivities, sure, but my world is Disney Land compared to the fucked up psycho place you evidently dwell in every day...

Do ya'll do any other type of counseling (not marriage related)?

So, you aren't qualified. That's what I figured. Sounds like some of these people could use some real help and, unfortunate, for reasons I can't quite figure, they are stuck talking to you. They'd be better off doing nothing.

hedge wrote:Do ya'll do any other type of counseling (not marriage related)?

I bet they try to cure gay people of their affliction.