Florida State Seminoles

[sardis]

Was abortion even a political issue in 1964?

[Bklyn]

OK, that was kinda funny in it's brutality. Somebody pray for me; maybe Cletus will.

Moving on...

Three new reports conclude a U.S. or Israeli strike on Tehran's nuclear sites would have disastrous results

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/15/we_cant ... singleton/

Abortion

Was not a true political issue until 1980 when it was officially adopted in the platform of the GOP...largely as a tactical matter.

[hedge]

I wish abortion had been legal when IB was conceived. Obviously his mother stood behind a donkey (IB's dad) and let it kick her in the gut repeatedly in an attempt to get rid of him, but it only succeeded in making him retarded. Of course, IB is the definition of a living abortion...

[sardis]

Let Israel do what it wants. They are the ones who will most be effected by the decision.

[Jungle Rat]

Please don't.

No I will because his response was so thoughtful and patient. He's trying to be patient with me so the least I can do is try and tie things up a little better. It makes for a good board and a good discussion.

See Hedge, this is how conversations are supposed to go. I don't need your malignant narcisism.

I was just gonna call you a moron but I see hedge made my point.

Idiot

[T Dot O Dot]

I wish abortion had been legal when IB was conceived. Obviously his mother stood behind a donkey (IB's dad) and let it kick her in the gut repeatedly in an attempt to get rid of him, but it only succeeded in making him retarded. Of course, IB is the definition of a living abortion...

[innocentbystander]

Yes, this is exactly how "conversations" always go when you're involved, you fucking idiot. In case you didn't notice (and clearly, you didn't, in typically hilarious yet pathetic fashion, which is, again, the norm whenever you are involved), this is not a conversation, it's everyone (and I do mean everyone) shaking their heads at your dumb ass. You are literally one of the top 3 (or rather, bottom 3) fucknuts that I and everyone else has EVER encountered on the internet. klaatu was another one, and that jackass from south Florida who posted pictures of his garage and kidney-shaped swimming pool with handmade posters directed at Rat was the other. But you are solidly in their sorry class. You are truly a clueless asshole jackass whose skull I would LOVE to stomp into the sidewalk. I swear to god, I would love to murder your sorry ass. Seriously, I would love to torture you, slowly, and then kill you. I really do hate the cancer on the face of humanity that you represent and are even proud of being. You are truly a bloat on the face of this earth. Please die....

Haters gotta hate. You need to let go of your anguish. Now calm down before you give yourself a stroke.

[innocentbystander]

OK, that was kinda funny in it's brutality. Somebody pray for me; maybe Cletus will.

Moving on...

Three new reports conclude a U.S. or Israeli strike on Tehran's nuclear sites would have disastrous results

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/15/we_cant ... singleton/

Abortion

Was not a true political issue until 1980 when it was officially adopted in the platform of the GOP...largely as a tactical matter.

Okay, no fault divorce laws and LBJ giving single moms housing and welfare money were related (linked) in the sense that they had a horrific overall impact on marriage, not to mention the fact that they both led to the overall decay in our nation's character. Megan McArdle said it best when she was writing as Jane Galt. Read this whole article on her position on Gay Marriage. It talks about single moms and no fault divorce specifically. Take your time, I'll be right here when you get back...

http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005244.html

The unintended results are what did the damage. Never once would anyone have guessed (in 1964) that the illegitimacy rate for black children in 2005 would be 75%. But that is where they are at thanks to LBJ. And no one would have guessed in 1968, that no fault divorce laws would bring our overall divorce rate to 50% of all marriages, but that is where we are at today.

Look at our prison population of over 3,000,000 and almost 50% of those are children of single moms. Awful, disgusting. These children were (most likely) supported by government all through their childhood and they are now supported by government in their incarceration. That is an error in the system, an error that few people in politics want to fix because they are afraid of being labeled a bigot by ignorant assholes like Hedge, people who are functionally incapable of thinking but would rather make fun of their political enemies while firmly sticking their own heads up their collective asses.

At my church, I deal with all sorts of marrital problems. I have those who are going through divorces (where one party wants out, typically the woman, and one party wants to make it work, typically the man.) In almost every case, these marriages are coming to an end because of a loss of income on the part of the man. I try to do what I can to save them, but to no avail. Society has removed all the shame that was once properly associated with divorce by simply looking the other way. We are taught not to judge, (only God will Judge) and that is right, but divorce is a creation of man, not God. Without no fault divorce, these women would have to LIE to a judge and make up a story of abuse or infidelity in order to end a marriage that no longer makes them happy. But, they don't have to lie, only one person needs to want out for the marriage to end (and for any reason, or NO reason.)

The other big problem I have to deal with in our young adult community is that we have so many young men and women who have not married (and apparently, wont be marrying.) Marriage is increasingly ONLY for the educated. That is what I've been finding. They young women who want to be married, are not being asked. My goodness, only 30% of black women over the age of 18 are married in this country!!!! The young men see so many of their peers going through terrible divorces NOT of their own doing and they decide that for marriage, there is nothing in it for them. No Fault Divorce laws have scared them right out of the marriage marketplace.

This is not good. This is creating a moral decay and removing so much social capital for our society, that we are all collectively worse for it.

I guess that was the point I was trying to make.

[Bklyn]

I'll read the link this afternoon when I have some time, or this evening. Either way, I'll give my $0.02 afterwards. Much better post than the earlier ones. Lucid. Linear. It was good to see.

RELIGION

your religious experience my ultimately lead to you sitting around in your 80s asking what time Maude comes on.

http://www.philly.com/philly/health/132456883.html

[crashcourse]

I have 2 sons both in late 20's who both have long term relations with their girlfriends neither one married. my 9 y/o grandson and 13 y/o stepgrandoson are well centered well adjusted very good kids. son and pot daughter in law bought their first house together last year. My wife and daughter and of course my daughter in law in waiting are fairly regularly bringing up the marriage word but my son just cant bring himself to walk down the aisle.

son #2 is living with me this summer along with potential daughter in law #2 have been together soince 1999 when I was in korea. they have been together in the same residence for 8 years both essentailly students--she takes her CPA this year and he works for the state of kansas just started --they will move out in september when shes done with her cpa exams. again no ring just a committment I guess and again my wife and daughter are mystified how they seem to do ok.

I know those are two maybe exceptions but I don't think your 50% of jailbirds being products of single moms holds much weight for causing the decay in society prisoners are coming from. now if you paid those moms not to have those kids instead of paying extra welfare/gov assistance for more dependants that might work.

obama had a nice program that doesnt get much publicity emphasizing black men to step up and take care of their kids uinstead of leaving momma to do it. forcing marriage/believing marriage can survive in the envirmnement where mos convicts orignate seems way to late at this point

taking away government assistance hell even paid neutering for certain high risk potential moms as fucked up as that sounds might be better. single dads need to be a significant part of junior's life and thats what happens to often is dad is no where around while the homicides/crimes/addictions/drugs etc ect soar from those kids in those environements. and in those environments marriage as an institution is done.

with my kids I think they have done just fine without it although I'll never tell my wife that.

So does the donor mom get to know who her kid is going to if she gives it up for adoption. How would you like to be in california and have to give up your kid and find out later in life you gave that kid up to a gay married couple. I hope the donor mom has some choiice of hetero vs homo moms and dads

[eCat]

So does the donor mom get to know who her kid is going to if she gives it up for adoption. How would you like to be in california and have to give up your kid and find out later in life you gave that kid up to a gay married couple. I hope the donor mom has some choiice of hetero vs homo moms and dads

so a woman who engages in pre-martial sex and exercises the lack of judgement to have high risk sex without the financial resources to support a child has the ability (and right) to pass judgement on who can and cannot adopt her child?

I've argued on here that a I believe a child coming from a traditional marriage is more likely to succeed in life, but in no way would I put faith in the larger % of women giving their children up for adoption to have a say in whats best for their child. Not that I am passing judgement on their situation, but its safe to say they have a history of making questionable decisions already in place.

[eCat]

I thought this was an interesting read
---------------------------------------------------------
Politics is a nasty business. A Really dirty business in which a select few are qualified to engage. Even fewer can do this and retain their own integrity and principles.

Those who watch from the outside tend to romanticize the process. This is probably because those who write about history and current events rarely give the general public a peek into the sordid affairs of politicians that does not involve naked women or bribes. Parliamentary procedures and party rules aren’t that exciting.

A prime example of how the media has, from time immemorial, missed the entire point, can be found in the Republican nomination process. You know, the one where Willard “Mitt” Romney has been named the presumed nominee months before the nominating convention has even been assembled.

But before examining this recent example, let us examine the process of a rag-tag band of colonists who were attempting to shrug off what they considered bonds too tight to bear; bonds which by today’s standards would be laughably inadequate to justify a bloody revolution.

In 1776, Thomas Jefferson, as a result of parliamentary procedure and reputation, was commissioned to write a draft list of grievances to be presented King George III; a literary gauntlet to be thrown down in response to a growing, oppressive government which considered its subjects chattel for its own hegemonic designs and even mere protestations, acts of open rebellion.

The draft was to be reviewed and revised by a small body of men who had tenuous grasp on power and credibility as representatives of the 13 colonies’ citizens. A Continental Congress sent to Philadelphia to try reason with the Crown after many trips across the ocean to petition the people’s representatives in London had netted nothing but scoffs, more taxes and bullets for the effort.

Politics is a nasty business.

Jefferson, upon pondering all of the ills committed by the King’s agents, provided a litany of transgressions, not the least of which was slavery itself.

[H]e has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it’s most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.

The nasty part of this was not that Jefferson wrote these words, but that the Congress struck them out for political expediency. A unanimous decision was required for passage of the declaration and this passage was not acceptable to all of the parties. New York and the Carolinas objected, which Jefferson later noted was for commercial considerations as they profited the most from the slave trade, and the Congress succumbed to the passage’s expulsion. Ironically, New York’s representatives abstained from voting even after their objections were placated.

This example proves also the poor historical reporting of the past events. Until some kind soul decided the general public should be privy to Jefferson’s attempt to abolish slavery, by making the draft available in electronic form, the fact that a super-majority of colonial representatives favored the abolition of slavery was only known by a select few students of history. The common myth, that an elite band of white supremacists rebelled against the Crown because they wanted to oppress blacks for their own fiduciary enrichment, is what was taught in most public schools.

Certainly it wouldn’t be noted that this passage’s principle had enough influence on George Washington that he freed his own slaves. He had to do this by including a clause in his will as it was the only legal means he had to do it. Virginia’s legislature had, since Jefferson’s attempt, made it increasingly difficult to free slaves. By the time Jefferson died, it was no longer legally possible to do.

The rest of this article supports Ron Paul and his attempt to gather delegates based on the rules of caucus voting.

http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/1 ... f-ron-paul

[hedge]

"Society has removed all the shame that was once properly associated with divorce by simply looking the other way."

Society has not removed the shame of being an idiot, and yet it still doesn't stop you...

[Cletus]

If a single woman is in a family way and she has no money and the man who knocked her up abandoned her, she goes away to a home for wayward girls (provided by a charity, not government) and she gives the baby up for adoption.

That was me. Born in Kathern Booth Hospital for Women in 1968. Her folks sent her down here from Celina. She cared for me every day until I was adopted 2 months later. What are you actually saying IB? My father was an Army man for 15 years. I grew up knowing how to make a bed.

I'm saying Rat, that you are the very good man you are today BECAUSE your unmarried birth mother gave you up for adoption. Steve Jobs was not an aberation.

Honestly you are making not a lick of sense.

No shit. Rat is the opposite of a very good man.

[eCat]

doom and gloom by the modern day nostradamus

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/author-will- ... th-a-bang/

[innocentbystander]

doom and gloom by the modern day nostradamus

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/author-will- ... th-a-bang/

Economically, the nation is more than $15 trillion in debt and is fast approaching $65 trillion worth of unfunded liabilities – promises the government has made regarding Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid that it can’t afford, Rosenberg says.

Further, America has lost 53 million children to abortion since 1973.

“That’s horrific in its own right – murder in my view,” Rosenberg says. “But on top of that, as if that weren’t bad enough, it’s having an economic affect that liberals didn’t intend, which is if you build a social welfare system in which young people pay the bills of older people through taxes and then you kill 53 million younger workers you are going to have a crisis.”

[innocentbystander]

I have 2 sons both in late 20's who both have long term relations with their girlfriends neither one married. my 9 y/o grandson and 13 y/o stepgrandoson are well centered well adjusted very good kids. son and pot daughter in law bought their first house together last year. My wife and daughter and of course my daughter in law in waiting are fairly regularly bringing up the marriage word but my son just cant bring himself to walk down the aisle.

None of my business, but did you ever ask your son "why" he can't bring himself to walk down the aisle? I only ask because you volunteered this much of your personal life.

I ask the young men at my parish "why" they don't want to marry and they are increasingly saying that the financial risk (of divorce, taking away everything that they have worked so hard to build and save) is too great. The single young women are frustrated (physically, emotionally, spiritually, and I suppose sexually) frustrated. One of them said to me that she actually believes all single guys her own age are either in jail or they just go to work, go home, surf free porn and masturbate all night. She says how can she compete with that?

[aTm]

It doesn't seem like you live in the same country that I do.

[innocentbystander]

It doesn't seem like you live in the same country that I do.

Is the country that you live in, Christian? Do you have much contact with young adults in this Christian community age 21 to (say) 35? What percentage of those young adults are married?

[Owlman]

I have been really swamped the past two months.

The common myth, that an elite band of white supremacists rebelled against the Crown because they wanted to oppress blacks for their own fiduciary enrichment, is what was taught in most public schools.

What public school teaches this? First, they talked about this in 1776. Second, I was taught that Jefferson initial draft included anti-slavery comments but that particularly, South Carolina representative, supported by North Carolina (typical) was very much against this. New York, was against it all and had difficulty making a vote because it had come with no instructions from its leaders.

Sometimes I think people decide what they want from something obscure and trump it up as the norm just to make a point. I suspect that most were taught that some in the Northern states (at the time) were against slavery and Southern states wouldn't sign if it was in the declaration. It was a little more complicated than that, but the idea that it was all a bunch of slave holders rebelling against the king? Ron Paul's (if it was a reference to his) Texas public Texas education (in the 40's or 50's no less) was a lot different (and wrong) than mine.