The Goat Pen

All Star Game appearances are meaningless in terms of evaluating players. I mention it only because the number of All Star selections does reflect how a given player is perceived and is often a good barometer of how players will fair with Hall Of Fame voters.

Red Bird wrote:Perhaps. Bagwell plainly was underrated during his career. For example, he only played in 4 All Star Games, that's almost unbelievable considering his other accomplishments. But As I've said many times, people's perceptions often do not match reality well.

Over his career, Bagwell did receive much greater MVP support than Jones, Bagwell ranking 35th all time and Jones 64th.

Well if they both could do cartwheels out to their respective positions, they would be a stone cold mortal lock for the HOF.

"If Bagwell isn't a 1st ballot HOFer then I don't see much to show me that Chipper Jones is."

If Bagwell makes it on the first ballot and then boasts about it, people could start calling him Jeff Bragwell...

Historically, getting to the Hall Of Fame is about more than your play on the field.

Ever hear of Frank Chance? Most baseball fans don't know who he was, but he's in the HOF. He wasn't a particularly great player either, but he's in the Hall of Fame. Why? Chance was the part of the most famous double play combination ever, so famous that all three men involved are in the HOF.

Why was this double play combination so famous? Was it because they were the best ever at turning the double play? No. Was it because they were the greatest SS, 2B and 1B of their time? No. Why then?

Because after his favorite team lost the World Series, Franklin Pierce Adams wrote a poem.

Tinker to Evers to Chance

These are the saddest of possible words:
“Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double –
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
“Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

If I were voting, I'd look at Frank Chance's numbers, compare him to other HOF first baseman and leave him off the ballot. Not that Chance wasn't a good player, he was. He just wasn't a HOF caliber player. And if all HOF voters were like me, Chance wouldn't be in the HOF and neither would Johny Evers or Joe Tinker, but how can reason and statistics stand up to poetry?

It's like Paul Revere and Israel Bissell.

"Ever hear of Frank Chance?"

What if his middle name had been "Nota"?

Nice Jungleland reference Red Bird.

Nice to find that little gem of a post tucked in amongst Rat's idiocy....

Love that song.

Rat must love it too.

Nah - the song references Magic Rat - not Retard Rat.

LOL

As a fiction writer, I love coincidence, but Jungle Rat?

I may be wrong, but I've always supposed he took his name from that song.

Good god...

Dumb bitch.

How did you come to call yourself Jungle Rat?

Welcome to The Jungle, baby

There's no Rat in that song.

Fitting I guess. When you consider who we're talking about.

Poor Rat, he might have derived his name from one of the best songs ever written and instead he'll be forever connected to a complete piece of crap song.

Welcome to the Jungle. How original is that.

It seems to have worked. For 15 fucking years. I am the Egg Man.

"Well! They were both very unpleasant characters—"

Anybody?

That was just a clue, kara. I suppose you'd have to be familiar with Cincinnati culture (a misnomer, I know) to get the whole picture