The Goat Pen

hedge wrote:"A coworker of mine, she just ended her engagement because her fiance couldn't find a job in two years. I feel terrible for that guy."

Seems like everybody that comes near you ends up with a ruined relationship. Including your wife and fambly. Or should I say, especially your wife and family. God, the thought of your family is enough to drive someone to suicide. And I'm sure it already has in many of their cases. Why couldn't it be you?

Hedge I feel sorry for you. You have my pity whether you want it or not.

Well aren't you a sweetie.

Heh, @ "affluence" of the 80s. I am more inclined to attribute the divorce rates to women moving into the workforce, in droves, in the late 60s/70s and the need for homes to maintain a two parent working household to attain the goods/standard of living that a single income household used to provide.

So, while in the "good old days" you had women hanging out in an unhappy marriage, or a man abusing a marriage because "where is she going to go?" You now have marriages end because (while it's true the ease of dissolving a union is much easier than it used to be in the courts) both parties have little incentive to make it work...or stick around an unhappy situation.

went on a family reunion 10 days ago at table rock and talked to a couple of builders who can't keep up because the manual laborers are disappearing. no one wants to work anymore according to them. they said manual laborers can pick and choose where they work and get a lot more then they used to. tell the fiancee to pack up move to springfield and pound nails

"Hedge I feel sorry for you. You have my pity whether you want it or not."...

"I would say almost all of the divorces that I have seen in our counseling center"...

You should save your pity for anyone stupid enough to go to any "counseling" center in which you play any role whatsoever (including janitor), b/c they are the ones who truly deserve it...

Hedge, you need counseling

Bklyn wrote:Heh, @ "affluence" of the 80s. I am more inclined to attribute the divorce rates to women moving into the workforce, in droves, in the late 60s/70s and the need for homes to maintain a two parent working household to attain the goods/standard of living that a single income household used to provide.

So, while in the "good old days" you had women hanging out in an unhappy marriage, or a man abusing a marriage because "where is she going to go?" You now have marriages end because (while it's true the ease of dissolving a union is much easier than it used to be in the courts) both parties have little incentive to make it work...or stick around an unhappy situation.

Imagine my surprise, but in your liberal screed, you left out the most important part about our history with domestic violence.

In the "good old days", if a man got drunk and beat the crap out of his wife, that happened once. Because half an hour later, the bruised and bloodied wife picks up the phone and calls her dad or brother and the two of them (and maybe the parish priest) pay a visit and all 3 of them take turns whaling the crap out of the drunken, wife abusing, asshole. One time. And after that terrific beating, he will never lay another hand on his wife again.

No restraining orders. No cops. No lawyers. No arrests. No prosecution. No jail time. No convictions. No loss of earning power or ending of careers for the assholes. And NO divorce. And the drunk dad will never again lay anything but a tender and loving hand on his wife.

Today, women can basically marry government. This is our socialist bargain with the Devil. It all changed with LBJ and his un-Constitutional Great Society that enabled single moms to get welfare benefits and government housing (things they could never get before.) Our whole outlook on women and knowing th edifference between right and wrong was gone forever. Now, women don't have to rely on their fathers or brothers or the church to step in and help if they marry and breed with an asshole. They rely on government to protect them and make them whole. Government comes in and takes the asshole away (even if he ISN'T an asshole, just someone who loses a job and the wife can't "cope"), and the children of that asshole grow up without a father (asshole or not.) Low and behold, those fatherless children who are now part of a "team" instead of a "family" are not disciplined and turn into assholes too.

I see IB hates the cootchie.

In the "good old days", if a man got drunk and beat the crap out of his wife, that happened once. Because half an hour later, the bruised and bloodied wife picks up the phone and calls her dad or brother and the two of them (and maybe the parish priest) pay a visit and all 3 of them take turns whaling the crap out of the drunken, wife abusing, asshole. One time. And after that terrific beating, he will never lay another hand on his wife again.

No restraining orders. No cops. No lawyers. No arrests. No prosecution. No jail time. No convictions. No loss of earning power or ending of careers for the assholes. And NO divorce. And the drunk dad will never again lay anything but a tender and loving hand on his wife.

Wow, this rendition of "history" is some utter horseshit.

Must be an east coast thing.

Basically @ aTm.

Also, just because I'm more liberal (case specific), reasoned, historically fluent and unattached to political ideology than you does not make me a Liberal.

In your defense (if I can offer any), it is a mistake many people make about me when I discuss certain things. My voting record helps me realize that my self-assessment is not a lie, though. I attribute it more to conservatives abandoning Conservatism to the ignorant, the mouth breathers and the zealots and putting their tent in the "Independent" area.

Also, what percentage of single mothers do you believe are on government assistance?

Bklyn wrote:Basically @ aTm.

Also, just because I'm more liberal (case specific), reasoned, historically fluent and unattached to political ideology than you does not make me a Liberal.

In your defense (if I can offer any), it is a mistake many people make about me when I discuss certain things. My voting record helps me realize that my self-assessment is not a lie, though. I attribute it more to conservatives abandoning Conservatism to the ignorant, the mouth breathers and the zealots and putting their tent in the "Independent" area.

My position = little to no government intervention. That is a conservative position.

Your position = government involvement. You can call yourself anything you want, I'm calling you a liberal.

(Brook) Higgins? Is that you after all these years?

IB. You are a fucking nut. They all think it but they always wait for me to say it.

So you're wife left you. Suck it up.

Bklyn wrote:Also, what percentage of single mothers do you believe are on government assistance?

Zero.

And why zero? If you pay for something, you get more of it. 75% of African-American babies are born illegitimate. That is up from a 23% illegitimacy rate in 1960 before single moms were allowed anywhere near welfare or public housing. LBJ's Great Society really fucked us all in the ass.

If a single woman is in a family way and she has no money and the man who knocked her up abandoned her, she goes away to a home for wayward girls (provided by a charity, not government) and she gives the baby up for adoption.

Jungle Rat wrote:(Brook) Higgins? Is that you after all these years?

IB. You are a fucking nut. They all think it but they always wait for me to say it.

So you're wife left you. Suck it up.

My wife didn't leave me. We're happily married.

no government intervention may be a conservative position, but it is not a Republican position.

They are committed to a large intervening government, as much as any democrat - it just takes different forms -such as gay marriage, prayer in school, abortion, war and foreign policy. The only real position the GOP takes that is anti-government is when it comes to enacting legislation toward handcuffing big business in an effort to reign in wreckless behavior and close the salary gap between worker and executive.

Barry Goidwater was the last real conservative and republican - and he got his ass handed to him in the election. His defeat ushered in the new era of conservatives starting with Ronald Reagan.

eCat wrote:no government intervention may be a conservative position, but it is not a Republican position.

They are committed to a large intervening government, as much as any democrat - it just takes different forms -such as gay marriage, prayer in school, abortion, war and foreign policy.

Marriage is a privilege for some, not a right for all. Married people get benefits from government. Marriage was intended to be the most economical way to raise children. The stronger the marriage, the lest government money needed for kids.

Prayer in school cost government nothing.

Stopping abortion costs government nothing. Those children would be adopted immediately. And maybe making abortion illegal would slow down our death spiral of negative population growth which is oblitrating our entitlement expenses (too many old people drawing benefit, not enough young people working and paying taxes.)

War is intended to kill islamic fundamentalists. Their FAITH commands them to kill us. We kill them first, we convert them to Christianity, or we die.

Barry Goldwater lost because he wanted to NUKE Hanoi (the left hated him) and he was pro-abortion (the right hated him.)

innocentbystander wrote:

eCat wrote:no government intervention may be a conservative position, but it is not a Republican position.

They are committed to a large intervening government, as much as any democrat - it just takes different forms -such as gay marriage, prayer in school, abortion, war and foreign policy.

Marriage is a privilege for some, not a right for all. Married people get benefits from government. Marriage was intended to be the most economical way to raise children. The stronger the marriage, the lest government money needed for kids.

Prayer in school cost government nothing.

Stopping abortion costs government nothing. Those children would be adopted immediately. And maybe making abortion illegal would slow down our death spiral of negative population growth which is oblitrating our entitlement expenses (too many old people drawing benefit, not enough young people working and paying taxes.)

War is intended to kill islamic fundamentalists. Their FAITH commands them to kill us. We kill them first, we convert them to Christianity, or we die.

wow

ok I'm done