The Goat Pen

Jungle Rat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:20 pm Tree. I don't think religion should be anywhere near politics. Period.

Governments don't live together. People live together.

" I don't necessarily agree with all of it, especially the predictions at the end, but it's important to take in some non-Western viewpoints."

Puerto Rico is non-Western?

hedge wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:41 pm " I don't necessarily agree with all of it, especially the predictions at the end, but it's important to take in some non-Western viewpoints."

Puerto Rico is non-Western?

That's right. Comment on the most mundane thing possible. A monkey could make smarter posts than you.

Are you the proof of that?

I thought we were all poop flinging monkeys?

I voted for Perot.

But looking back his presidency would have made Trump's looks tame. It just would have been chaos.

Perot was right of course, but I think it would have come at the expense of being pragmatic.

Rand Paul understood that from seeing his father fight losing battles based on principle. At the end of the day , you can have an ideology, but it can't come at the expense you just shouting on soap boxes and not getting anything accomplished.

Agree with Sardis on the globalist versus nationalist. I had not put it in those terms before.

Its complete bullshit that the left has connected nationalism with racism. The people that benefit the most from a strong nationalist movement are the minorities and disadvantaged. But they have to be Americans to see any of the benefit. Middle class white guys in the midwest don't benefit from an increased manufacturing base, stronger defense, secured borders and the like. They don't benefit from means based college tuition, health care or other forms of income security. The people making minimum wage competing with 2 million illegal immigrants crossing the border do.

And I've given in to the idea of a single party health system. I don't like it but I think its too late to move away from it. No American should have to file bankruptcy for getting sick. No American should have to choose between food and insulin. Its dysfunctional and politicians are as much to blame as anyone in the health care industry. The reason I mention that is because while I think Sanders math justification was a joke, I do see benefit to the American people for his brand of politics. I think its time as Americans we say that health care is a right because our wealth gives us the luxury of doing it. But is also comes with hard choices and prioritizing spending, for example no $40b in military aid to fight communist aggression or muslim totalitarianism.

We should also demand a balanced budget unless in times of crisis, and I think means based tax exemption at all levels for seniors should be federal policy. All of that would result in a significantly smaller government with sizeable cuts in military and income security budgets. That's the sort of policies that get a president assassinated.

"But looking back his presidency would have made Trump's looks tame. It just would have been chaos."

No, Perot was actually very smart and he actually cared about the country. The lack of either of those traits is why Trump's presidency was such a trainwreck. I liked Perot, too, but his VP choice sunk him...

Perot wouldve been sabotaged at every turn. He lost because he withdrew from the race while winning. And when he got back in he wasnt winning any more.

He later claimed he withdrew because people threatened his daughter or some shit and he reported if to the FBI. Nothing came of it though, I’ll let Hedge decide whether that was “smart” or part of a “trainwreck”

eCat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:23 am I voted for Perot.

You needn't go further.

eCat and sardis, what do you mean when you use the terms globalist and nationalist?

"I’ll let Hedge decide whether that was “smart” or part of a “trainwreck”"

Perot was a bit of a nut case, I'll admit that. The thing with his daughter, choosing Admiral what's his name as a running mate, etc. I'm sure he had some odd theories about stuff that were bordering on crackpot. Probably could get mildly paranoid. But I still think he was a smart guy who actually did build a multibillion dollar company and personal fortune, and I do think he genuinely cared about the country in general and most of the people in it. In all those ways, he was the polar opposite of Trump...

It's really not fair to hate Trump as much as I do, it's not his fault that he clearly has Asperger's. He just doesn't have human feelings like most people do and therefor thinks it's fine to run over whoever he wants to to get what he wants. He doesn't know how to work with people, only against them. That's how he sees the world, "against." He can't help it. His low IQ doesn't help either...

hedge wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:42 am It's really not fair to hate Trump as much as I do, it's not his fault that he clearly has Asperger's. He just doesn't have human feelings like most people do and therefor thinks it's fine to run over whoever he wants to to get what he wants. He doesn't know how to work with people, only against them. That's how he sees the world, "against." He can't help it. His low IQ doesn't help either...

I will agree with this except for the IQ part. There was a need for son of a bitch to upend the system. He did his job I wish he'd move on. His involvement in the primaries gave us weak candidates in GA, AZ, and PA where we will lose, and thus, lose the Senate.

Globalist and Nationalist - I know different people will have different definitions and you'll probably correct me with some technical definition. Globalists are folks who want a New World Order or something like the European Union on a world-wide scale where you give up bit of your sovereignty. I don't worry about the UN or WTO since they are weak and no one listens to them anyway. Globalists want lopsided trade agreements so they can have cheap labor options for their business and export democracy to other nations. The former hurts the average worker and the latter has been proven to be misguided since we've learned many cultures don't want democracy. A Nationalist wants sovereignty to stay with their country. They're ok with fair trade agreements, but won't sign ones that hurt their lower and middle class. They allow immigration, but control and balance it so that jobs aren't taken from Americans or their incomes compromised. They desire their country to be self-sufficient as much as possible, especially with products that are needed for national security like energy, food supply, computer chips. We shouldn't rely on other countries for this. It's ok to import and export, but make sure we are net exporters with these items. Basically, Nationalists are America first.

sardis wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:05 pm

hedge wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:42 am It's really not fair to hate Trump as much as I do, it's not his fault that he clearly has Asperger's. He just doesn't have human feelings like most people do and therefor thinks it's fine to run over whoever he wants to to get what he wants. He doesn't know how to work with people, only against them. That's how he sees the world, "against." He can't help it. His low IQ doesn't help either...

I will agree with this except for the IQ part. There was a need for son of a bitch to upend the system. He did his job I wish he'd move on. His involvement in the primaries gave us weak candidates in GA, AZ, and PA where we will lose, and thus, lose the Senate.

Globalist and Nationalist - I know different people will have different definitions and you'll probably correct me with some technical definition. Globalists are folks who want a New World Order or something like the European Union on a world-wide scale where you give up bit of your sovereignty. I don't worry about the UN or WTO since they are weak and no one listens to them anyway. Globalists want lopsided trade agreements so they can have cheap labor options for their business and export democracy to other nations. The former hurts the average worker and the latter has been proven to be misguided since we've learned many cultures don't want democracy. A Nationalist wants sovereignty to stay with their country. They're ok with fair trade agreements, but won't sign ones that hurt their lower and middle class. They allow immigration, but control and balance it so that jobs aren't taken from Americans or their incomes compromised. They desire their country to be self-sufficient as much as possible, especially with products that are needed for national security like energy, food supply, computer chips. We shouldn't rely on other countries for this. It's ok to import and export, but make sure we are net exporters with these items. Basically, Nationalists are America first.

but now Nationalists are racists/fascists/xenophobes thanks to the left's definition projected in the Media

also HAHA Brian Stelter, I hope you have to have a garage sale to pay your mortgage. CNN is making the right move cleaning house of the all the personalities who couldn't make a living without trashing 1/2 of the country.

hedge wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:24 am "But looking back his presidency would have made Trump's looks tame. It just would have been chaos."

No, Perot was actually very smart and he actually cared about the country. The lack of either of those traits is why Trump's presidency was such a trainwreck. I liked Perot, too, but his VP choice sunk him...

I would bet the house Perots would have been worse - perhaps not with all the vitriol, but I bet he would have been impeached and his followers would have been more fanatic because Perot would be doing whatever he did for the right reasons - but being taken down for radically attacking the desires of both parties.

SCOTUS didn't do Republicans any favors sending Roe V Wade back to the states.

I can easily see women voting in masses. I don't think they'll get many of the suburban moms, but I bet typically single women in their 20's didn't vote and now they will.

Something for the show tune crowd.