Florida State Seminoles

[Jungle Rat]

[aTm]

McClusky!!

Wow, you actually watched that? And long enough to get to where they mentioned McClusky?

DS, he didn't exactly debunk the sacrificial lambs idea, just one aspect of it. Just that the initial two torpedo squadrons cant be given credit for distracting the Japanese CAP, but he still says that VT-3 which happened to arrive at the same time as the dive bombers, did distract the CAP. Distracting the Japanese fighters was less big a deal, than those strikes making it impossible for Nagumo to prepare and launch his own strike before the dive bombers arrived, and he says that as well.

I don't know that sacrificial lambs is really the right idea, as they weren't purposely sent there to die. They had a job to do, and they did it. And while it sounds to a layman like they accomplished nothing, they actually played a role in the American victory even though it sounds on the surface if you explained it, like they failed somehow. They just got the short end of the stick because of circumstances and their equipment, but had a mission to try and accomplish anyway.

[innocentbystander]

Do we yet know what IB does for a job except preach to mexican freeloaders?

I'll tell you exactly what I did. I was a software developer for 28 years. Prior to that I was help desk for a couple years and prior to that, a warehouseman. I worked full time for 33 years in addition to managing a part-time office cleaning company. Now I am retired with two businesses, and I substitute teach. I am a wealth creator and I help people.

You are just a drunk and DS is just a destroyer of children and families. The world might very well be a much better place with neither of you in it.

[Jungle Rat]

Why do you hate success IB?

[innocentbystander]

McClusky!!

Wow, you actually watched that? And long enough to get to where they mentioned McClusky?

DS, he didn't exactly debunk the sacrificial lambs idea, just one aspect of it. Just that the initial two torpedo squadrons cant be given credit for distracting the Japanese CAP, but he still says that VT-3 which happened to arrive at the same time as the dive bombers, did distract the CAP. Distracting the Japanese fighters was less big a deal, than those strikes making it impossible for Nagumo to prepare and launch his own strike before the dive bombers arrived, and he says that as well.

I don't know that sacrificial lambs is really the right idea, as they weren't purposely sent there to die. They had a job to do, and they did it. And while it sounds to a layman like they accomplished nothing, they actually played a role in the American victory even though it sounds on the surface if you explained it, like they failed somehow. They just got the short end of the stick because of circumstances and their equipment, but had a mission to try and accomplish anyway.

I saw the two torpedo squadrons that "accomplished-nothing" as tactical errors. I would say that their deaths fall on Admiral Spruance's decision making.

What should have happened is both torpedo squadrons AND all the dive bombers should have hit the Japanese fleet simultaneously (if possible.) That should have been the order. If you are "first" and you find the fleet, radio the entire world where they are, get altitude, go as slow as you can to conserve every drop of fuel, circle, and wait for the entire cavalry to arrive. Do not engage alone. That kind of thing. That should have been Spruance's orders, not radio silence.

Spruance deserves every accolade that could be given him (him and Fletcher) because their "strategy" worked perfectly. It was a major STRATEGIC victory. It's just that a few of their tactics may have meant the needless loss of lives. Still (imho)...

A+

[innocentbystander]

Why do you hate success IB?

You are correct. I hate professions where success is measured on how many families you destroy and how many children you ruin.

[Jungle Rat]

Better hope Jesus doesn't find out how you really counsel those poor souls you say you help.

[aTm]

I saw the two torpedo squadrons that "accomplished-nothing" as tactical errors. I would say that their deaths fall on Admiral Spruance's decision making.

What should have happened is both torpedo squadrons AND all the dive bombers should have hit the Japanese fleet simultaneously (if possible.) That should have been the order. If you are "first" and you find the fleet, radio the entire world where they are, get altitude, go as slow as you can to conserve every drop of fuel, circle, and wait for the entire cavalry to arrive. Do not engage alone. That kind of thing. That should have been Spruance's orders, not radio silence.

Spruance deserves every accolade that could be given him (him and Fletcher) because their "strategy" worked perfectly. It was a major STRATEGIC victory. It's just that a few of their tactics may have meant the needless loss of lives. Still (imho)...

A+

Simultaneous mass combined air strike like you describe and claim we should have used was exactly the Japanese carrier doctrine that led to their demise at Midway. Japanese doctrine was to do exactly what you described. They even kept all four carriers together in a box formation next to each other so that each carrier could also launch their planes at the same time at the same distance away from the target as the other three. The American doctrine led to the Japanese being attacked immediately by whatever planes were available, and combined with Japanese doctrine, meant that Japan's carriers would be delayed in launching their own counterstrike as long as planes kept showing up above them. It also meant that when one carrier was found, all four were found. When Japan finally was able to launch its own strikes from one remaining carrier. They repeatedly found and bombed only Yorktown which was on its own in its own Task Force separate from Enterprise and Hornet.

Nagumo had four carriers. He famously had a dilemma on whether to arm his planes for naval strikes, or for ground strikes on Midway. He could have done both if Japanese doctrine allowed for it. He could have started rearming only one or two of his four airgroups to attack Midway again and kept the other two or three ready for action if enemy carriers were spotted. But no, he had to rearm everything available to launch all at once for one mission or the other. It was a dumb way to do things.

[innocentbystander]

I love how feminists have "betrayed" the left this week.

In response to Roe-vs-Wade being overturned, feminists were bitching and moaning to anyone who would listen about how a 10 year old girl in Ohio had to leave the state to get abortion in Indiana after she was raped by "a man." That was the narrative, "a man." That was all they were allowed to say. "Man." Nothing else.

Problem is the attorney general of Ohio did not "play along" with the narrative and said on July 12 he had no evidence of a 10-year-old rape victim, despite the reporting of such a crime being mandatory. No evidence. So....

...sadly...

feminists had to reveal who this infamous "Ohio man" was: Gerson Fuentes, 27, an illegal alien from Guatemala.

BETRAYED!!!!!!!

So now the left is at war with the left. The identity of a rapist of a 10 year old rape victim is NOT supposed to be revealed unless he is a white, CIS-gender, married, Republican, Christian, US citizen. That is it. To get into the demographics of who is really raping our children, well, if he doesn't fit the narrative of the left then don't say anything.

I find it sad that the ONLY STATE that keeps track of all the illegal aliens who rape our children is North Carolina. That is it. They are the only ones who categorize rapists by their illegal status. To date:

North Carolinians for Immigration Reform and Enforcement (NCFire.info). Here’s NCFire’s list of illegal immigrant child rapists in North Carolina, so far this year:

2022 Monthly Child Rapes by Illegal Aliens:

6. June 2022: 20 illegal aliens arrested for 42 child rape/child sexual assault charges

5. May 2022: 18 illegal aliens arrested for 42 child rape/child sexual assault charges

4. April 2022: 19 illegal aliens arrested for 72 child rape/child sexual assault charges

3. March 2022: 30 illegal aliens arrested for 110 child rape/child sexual assault charges

2. February 2022: 27 illegal aliens arrested for 84 child rape/child sexual assault charges

1. January 2022: 18 illegal aliens arrested for 96 child rape/child sexual assault charges

[Jungle Rat]

Tonights IB rant is brought to you by

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[sardis]

Buncha 80 year olds at the VFW

[Jungle Rat]

I'm hearing outakes from Trumps Jan 7th video condemning the violence will be shown tomorrow night. Supposed to be the last one. We'll see. Gotta get the report out before midterms.

[aTm]

Buncha 80 year olds at the VFW

This forum would be about a million times better if this thread was all WW2 instead of politics…

[hedge]

What if Hitler was right and we're all wrong? Nobody ever talks about that. They daren't...

[hedge]

[hedge]

Buncha 80 year olds at the VFW

This forum would be about a million times better if this thread was all WW2 instead of politics…

I liked it better when wars were just named by the number of years. Seven Years' War. 30 Year War. Fuckin' Hundred Year War. That's where it's at. And the French and Indian war. Talk about those, smarty pants!

[hedge]

The judge cracked with the back of an axe the shinbone on an antelope and the hot marrow dripped smoking on the stones. They watched him. The subject was war.

The good book says that he that lives by the sword shall perish by the sword, said the black.

The judge smiled, his face shining with grease. What right man would have it any other way? he said.

The good book does indeed count war an evil, said Irving. Yet there's many a bloody tale of war inside it.

It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was andwill be. That way and not some other way.

He turned to Brown, from whom he'd heard some whispered slur or demurrer. Ah Davy, he said. It's your own trade we honor here. Why not rather take a small bow. Let each acknowledge each.

What is my trade?

War. War is your trade. Is it not?

And it aint yours?

Mine too. Very much so.

What about all them notebooks and bones and stuff?

All other trades are contained in that of war.

Is that why war endures?

No. It endures because young men love it and old men love it in them. Those that fought, those that did not.

That's your notion.

[hedge]

The judge smiled. Men are born for games. Nothing else. Every child knows that play is nobler than work. He knows too that the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the skill and strength of the opponents and the humiliation of defeat and the pride of victory are in themselves sufficient stake because they inhere in the worth of the principals and define them. But trial of chance or trial of worth all games aspire to the condition of war for here that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

[hedge]

Suppose two men at cards with nothing to wager save their lives. Who has not heard such a tale? A turn of the card. The whole universe for such a player has labored clanking to this moment which will tell if he is to die at that man's hand or that man at his. What more certain validation of a man's worth could there be? This enhancement of the game to its ultimate state admits no argument concerning the notion of fate. The selection of one man over another is a preference absolute and irrevocable and it is a dull man indeed who could reckon so profound a decision without agency or significance either one. In such games as have for their stake the annihilation of the defeated the decisions are quite clear. This man holding this particular arrangement of cards in his hand is thereby removed from existence. This is the nature of war, whose stake is at once the game and the authority and the justification. Seen so, war is the truest form of divination. It is the testing of one's will and the will of another within that larger will which because it binds them is therefore forced to select. War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence. War is god.

Brown studied the judge. You're crazy Holden. Crazy at last.

The judge smiled.

[Jungle Rat]

Buncha 80 year olds at the VFW

This forum would be about a million times better if this thread was all WW2 instead of politics…

Then make one Jap lover.