The Goat Pen

If we want the middle class to come back, we should be encouraging people to learn a trade and get into the workforce ASAP. There are a shitload of service jobs and business that grow around them that do not need any sort liberal arts higher education - plumbing, electrical, landscaping, carpentry, roofing, bookkeeping, commissioned sales, etc. College is not for everyone. Fuck, the last two years of high school is not for everyone. As a society, we need to accept that and get people training and working much sooner.

Cletus wrote:If we want the middle class to come back, we should be encouraging people to learn a trade and get into the workforce ASAP. There are a shitload of service jobs and business that grow around them that do not need any sort liberal arts higher education - plumbing, electrical, landscaping, carpentry, roofing, bookkeeping, commissioned sales, etc. College is not for everyone. Fuck, the last two years of high school is not for everyone. As a society, we need to accept that and get people training and working much sooner.

plumbing = mexican
electrical = mexican
landscaping = mexican
carpentry = mexican
roofing = mexican
drywall = mexican
painting = mexican



This country knows the solution to bringing the middle class back and it begins with making entry level apprenticeships in these fields pay well enough to make it worth their while.

We've convinced ourselves that paying a guy to sling shingles or a hammer all day ( in a non union job) is a low paying hourly job that can be filled by readily available cheap labor - the only requirement being a strong back - so the general contractor is the guy who makes out while the guy needing an apprenticeship with just a high school diploma works the "safe" job that is in the retail service sector. The Mexicans are disposable and somewhat easily replaced.

What we really need to accept is that Americans will not do this work for pay on par with Mexican day laborers. Take 4 million illegals out of the market and let supply and demand come back into play.

I consider myself pretty lazy, but I had paper routes until I was old enough to go work in a tobacco field in the summer, doing work that only mexicans do now. I can't understand why teens don't still do this type of thing around here. It not only instills work ethic and responsibility, it makes you realize very quickly what you don't want to do the rest of your life and motivates you to work harder in school to avoid such a fate. But like I said, no american teens (save the children of farmers) would even consider doing that type of labor these days. Plus, a lot of it has become automated...

acura mdx gets the ratings for that year

American teens not only don't work outside--they don't play outside anymore either. sandlot baseball and football games are a thing of the past

hedge wrote:I consider myself pretty lazy, but I had paper routes until I was old enough to go work in a tobacco field in the summer, doing work that only mexicans do now. I can't understand why teens don't still do this type of thing around here. It not only instills work ethic and responsibility, it makes you realize very quickly what you don't want to do the rest of your life and motivates you to work harder in school to avoid such a fate. But like I said, no american teens (save the children of farmers) would even consider doing that type of labor these days. Plus, a lot of it has become automated...

I don't have any data points to know if that is true or not. I do know that I've gone thru about 8 kids over the last 12 years on our paper route delivering door to door with the help of their parents which I think shows a pretty good work ethic , and I've been away from farm country so long I don't know if kids do that work or not. To be honest, I can't remember the last time I saw a big tobacco field.

I've just never wanted to jump on the "kids today" bandwagon. I remember when the Gen X'ers were lazy and had it so much easier than the greatest generation or the boomers, and now I hear about the entitled millineals. Kids are kids, and if they suck its because their parents sucked. But kids are generally unreliable by nature and its easy to see why someone would rather hire a 26 year old mexican immigrant who will work for 10 years without demanding a raise.

To me, the real issue is that people are so interested in trying to get ahead in this global economy - including exploiting cheap labor that they don't feel any obligation to the American worker or supporting the American infrastructure. From the farmer to the CEO, the obligation to the American worker is seen as some socialist mantra to be scorned and mocked. It doesn't help that our government wastes so much money on bullshit when it should be investing tax dollars on infrastructure and education.

In 1955 if you graduated high school, you had a myriad of choices that would get you into middle class. First, you had the delay process of either joining the military thru the draft which took about 3 million young adult males out of the labor pool or going to college which accounted for another 25-35%, so American youth were off the working grid so to speak until their early to mid 20's, then for the non college educated, they got a job that wasn't going to put them into middle class but it did pay enough to cover the cost of living an entry level lifestyle. I'm talking studio with a hotplate apartment. For that matter, you could work a summer job and pay your tuition at most state universities as well. As late as 1968 the minimum wage kept up with the cost of living.

Every town of any size had some manufacturing base - textiles, steel, auto, sourcing raw materials that would take you to the next level - the job that gained you entry into the middle class . At that point regardless of the color of your collar - blue or white, you could get the 3/2 ranch on the 1/4 acre in suburbia with 20% down. Manufacturing represented about 25% of the jobs in this country then and it stayed that way until Nixon open up doors with China in the early 70s

However today, even with manufacturing making some resurgance - mostly thru automation, a high school graduate isn't qualified to work the jobs that require advanced math, technical expertise and problem solving skills

We're not going to solve the education problem. Unless we further infringe upon parents to become more engaged in education and committing their children to the process, we'll never turn the kids that don't go to college into hi-tech manufacturing workers.

I think the best we can do is to prevent the constant flooding of this job market with cheap labor. Ultimately we'll pay the price for it in higher cost of goods and services as the service sector has to pay and train former American cast off workers a wage that will get them off the couch, but its the first step in moving forward and making them at least tax neutral and move them away from a life of subsidized income from taxpayers.

crashcourse wrote:acura mdx gets the ratings for that year

American teens not only don't work outside--they don't play outside anymore either. sandlot baseball and football games are a thing of the past

My wife wants the MDX. I'm leaning toward the Lexus.

Never had a problem with my Fords, Chevys or Toyotas. Looking for a new Tahoe as well. Try putting oil into them.

If you need a fat redneck to get rid of that truck to, my ears are listening.

Looking for a suitable place to sleep?

Hedge : It's a 4x4 not a earth moving dump truck.

BigRedMan wrote:If you need a fat redneck to get rid of that truck to, my ears are listening.

since I bought that thing 3 years ago I've put in

torque converter
radiator
thermostat
heater core
water pump
all hoses/belts
coils/spark plugs
brake calipers
rotors
front hubs
battery
Cooper off road tires

and thats all I can remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there is more

Those off road tires drive me crazy. Rides like a army jeep now. I wish I had just bought some cheap firestones.

I'm sure there is someone out there that will want this thing though. Ford Trucks with the big engine, especially the King Ranch models are desireable.

Just not by me.

Afuckingmen.

Cletus wrote:If we want the middle class to come back, we should be encouraging people to learn a trade and get into the workforce ASAP. There are a shitload of service jobs and business that grow around them that do not need any sort liberal arts higher education - plumbing, electrical, landscaping, carpentry, roofing, bookkeeping, commissioned sales, etc. College is not for everyone. Fuck, the last two years of high school is not for everyone. As a society, we need to accept that and get people training and working much sooner.

eCat wrote:

BigRedMan wrote:If you need a fat redneck to get rid of that truck to, my ears are listening.

since I bought that thing 3 years ago I've put in

torque converter
radiator
thermostat
heater core
water pump
all hoses/belts
coils/spark plugs
brake calipers
rotors
front hubs
battery
Cooper off road tires

and thats all I can remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there is more

Those off road tires drive me crazy. Rides like a army jeep now. I wish I had just bought some cheap firestones.

I'm sure there is someone out there that will want this thing though. Ford Trucks with the big engine, especially the King Ranch models are desireable.

Just not by me.

At least you live in the right county. Should be an easy sell.

yea I'm figuring I got the bubba market cornered on this one

I don't know - I think I might have just lost the Clermont County bubba market

this may not be new but with the release of Doom, some people have been going to redbox, renting the game for the dollar, scanning the CD, printing a copy of the scanned CD (with the red box coding system), cutting it to size and placing the paper copy (or a copy glued to a CD) back into the container and returning it to the redbox machine.

I'm fully curious about the face of the chick holding the discs.

eCat wrote:this may not be new but with the release of Doom, some people have been going to redbox, renting the game for the dollar, scanning the CD, printing a copy of the scanned CD (with the red box coding system), cutting it to size and placing the paper copy (or a copy glued to a CD) back into the container and returning it to the redbox machine.

Would they not just charge the renter the full price of the last known person to rent it?

you would think

That King Ranch would have been a winner with my son. State Farm totaled out his 2004 Silverado a few weeks ago, and he had a check for almost 10K to buy something else.

We found a 2007 Jeep Commander over the weekend that looks showroom new. It's fully loaded, and fully frat. It's a bit of a dad ride, but he loves it.

Take off the camper, and put a lift kit on that King Ranch, though, and it would have been a contender...the body looks good. What year is it?