Florida State Seminoles

[Bklyn]

Sometimes homicides aren't really homicides after people take the time to breath a little bit.

Homicides are always homicides, unless you're talking about Tupac, who is obviously still alive. You're either dead, or you're not.

[Jungle Rat]

So you are making a judgement that it was murder. Why?

The judgement is that a homicide took place and a procedure should be codified where specific steps need to occur in order to have the clearest picture possible.

Who judged it was a homicide?

[Jungle Rat]

And why?

[Gator by God's Grace]

Heh. Cops should always make a snap judgement on a murder. What they should do is process the person, take his statement. Photo his clothes. Take those clothes into evidence. Photo the position of the body. Take witness statements. Test the shooter for drugs and alcohol (like they did the boy). Put him in bracelets and take him to the precinct and process him for prints, powder residue and other physical issues. If that means he stays overnight, then so be it. AFTER that, then the DA can decide if he wants to move forward with an indictment.

I don't think any of the above are unreasonable in a homicide. A lot of the above did not occur.

They do more in a suspected DUI than what they did in Sanford.

Al Sharpton did not need to know about this...and since he did, shame on Sanford PD for letting it get to the point where he hopped a plane to cause a fuss.

fwiw, I don't think all of that police work you described happened in the Dooley case either, although he was arrested a few days later and charged with manslaughter, but that may have perhaps only been because of public outcry. he refused to cooperate with the investigation.

all i know, is both cases are senseless tragedies that could have been avoided. and if i were in the shoes of Martins' parents i would have done everything i could to generate pressure to have el zim arrested.

[aTm]

homicide=The killing of one human being by another human being.

[eCat]

I don't think the cops rushed to judgement. They took Zimmerman into custody that night and let him go after evaluating the evidence.

Its only because Martin is a 17 year old youth that people are outraged. If Martin was a 40 year old homeless junkie, none of us would even know about this case.

[Owlman]

If the case didn't appear to be closed within 48 hours, I doubt there would have been an outcry about this case.

[Owlman]

The police had nothing else to go on besides Zimmerman's statements, his smashed in nose & back of his head, witness statements and knowing that it was not only he who called them out to his neighborhood on a daily basis because of constant break ins.

For a person who kept saying over and over to wait for the evidence, you sure aren't waiting Rat. What witness testimony are you talking about? To my understanding, no one has said that they saw one person pounding the head of another person into the ground. We've had some conflicting witness testimony in the media, some alleged released part of police report (none of which answer much of the critical questions), some conflicting statements from Zimmerman's brother and father, and a dead unarmed teen who was where he was supposed to be.

You say you hate it being in the media, but you sure are feeding off of it.

[AlabamAlum]

What I guess happened is this. It's pure conjecture on my part.

(1) GZ sees a black ute with a hoodie and assumes he's up to no good so he follows him.

(2) TM knows he's being followed and doesn't like it; tries to elude GZ.

(3) GZ leaves car and follows; TM says "wtf you want?"

(4) GZ: "leave the area, negro." TM: "fuck off"

(5) There is no step 5.

(6) at this point I think that TM threw a punch. Not because he's black or wears hoodies but because he's 17. Some Mexican dude tries to follow me at that age, he's gonna get slugged for his troubles.

(7) I think GZ tried to fight back but was getting his ass kicked, and was able to pull his gun and shoot.

Complicating the issue (to me) for GZ is that 911 told him NOT to leave his vehicle. That dispatcher was the closest thing to an actual officer at that time and GZ apparently ignored him outright.

I do not know if GZ is guilty because I do not know Florida law well enough - even if the events transpired exactly like I think they did.

[10ac]

[youtube]0dENltReP1U[/youtube]

I hop some crazed vigilante strafes the whole area. Cocksuckers.

[10ac]

It's expected that a white guy walking through a 'hood is going to get fucked up. It's the old "dog bites man, man bites dog" thingie.

[eCat]

What I guess happened is this. It's pure conjecture on my part.

(1) GZ sees a black ute with a hoodie and assumes he's up to no good so he follows him.

(2) TM knows he's being followed and doesn't like it; tries to elude GZ.

(3) GZ leaves car and follows; TM says "wtf you want?"

(4) GZ: "leave the area, negro." TM: "fuck off"

(5) There is no step 5.

(6) at this point I think that TM threw a punch. Not because he's black or wears hoodies but because he's 17. Some Mexican dude tries to follow me at that age, he's gonna get slugged for his troubles.

(7) I think GZ tried to fight back but was getting his ass kicked, and was able to pull his gun and shoot.

Complicating the issue (to me) for GZ is that 911 told him NOT to leave his vehicle. That dispatcher was the closest thing to an actual officer at that time and GZ apparently ignored him outright.

I do not know if GZ is guilty because I do not know Florida law well enough - even if the events transpired exactly like I think they did.

I think Brooklyn and I also agree that's pretty much how it went down.

But why does 911 telling him to leave his vehicle complicate the issue? Its OK for Trayvon Martin to walk thru the neighborhood but not Zimmerman? If you rationalize why Zimmerman was told to stay in the car, it was most likely for his own protection, not the idea that he would harass Martin. Getting out of the car doesn't put Zimmerman in a "you just have to take your ass kicking now " legal precedent - and I guess I need to be educated as to how that isn't self defense for Zimmerman?

[10ac]

fucking animals

[AlabamAlum]

eCat,

Because the police dispatch was the closest thing to an authority in that situation. When you call PO-PO and they tell you to not pursue, to stand down, you probably should, IMO, absent some overwhelming reason to ignore those instructions. If GZ had listened, he would not be facing an indictment and TM would still be alive. In the end, GZ killed someone who wasn't going to burgle any home and faces a possible prison term.

[eCat]

eCat,

Because the police dispatch was the closest thing to an authority in that situation. When you call PO-PO and they tell you to not pursue, to stand down, you probably should, IMO, absent some overwhelming reason to ignore those instructions. If GZ had listened, he would not be facing an indictment and TM would still be alive. In the end, GZ killed someone who wasn't going to burgle any home and faces a possible prison term.

I"m not arguing that but had Martin not punched GZ, he'd still be alive as well. There are probably 5 other scenarios where if someone didn't do something they'd both be home watching TV tonight. Had Martin not volunteered to be head of neighborhood watch, had he not decided upon advice from Animal Services to get a gun and his CCL. Its ok to talk about what Zimmerman should/n't have done. I'm learning its not kosher to talk about what Martin should or shouldn't have done.

Its debatable to the extent that GZ should have obediently listened to someone who is a dispatcher but not a policeman, but he did not break the law by not listening to them. There are alot of things he probably should have done but all that is out the window if Martin throws the first punch.

All the debate on any actions taken outside of who initiated contact is moot, IMO. Even the whole gun issue on neighborhood watch. He wasn't supposed to have a gun on a non sanctioned neighborhood watch? Is that a state law? He has his CCL. Him carrying a gun was legal. I'll bet you'd be hard pressed to find someone in that neighborhood that would have objected to him having it on him prior to the incident -especially knowing they had a break in to a home with the resident inside with a small child.

[Owlman]

I don't see how they can get in that Martin threw the first punch without Zimmerman testifying. If I'm the district attorney, I think I could get the statement redacted out of the police report as hearsay. That will make it more difficult for the defense.

[eCat]

you won't think this is a fair question, but do you want justice or a conviction?

Some of your arguments haven't been about what happened but what is admissible in court, it makes me wonder.

[Jungle Rat]

Why wouldn't Zimmerman testify? His word against whos?

[Owlman]

you won't think this is a fair question, but do you want justice or a conviction?

Some of your arguments haven't been about what happened but what is admissible in court, it makes me wonder.

I want evidence. I'll make my decision about conviction when I see that. The difference between us is I don't accept his statement for self-defense as fact. If he stood over him and blew him away, he'd make the same statement to the police. Therefore, it means nothing to me. I'll wait for the facts.

As for not testifying, it is extremely risky for Zimmerman to testify in his own defense. There are a lot of things that can come out that otherwise wouldn't be allowed at trial. For example, there is a good chance that his previous problems with the police will be kept out, but he could easily make a mistake during testimony that would make it admissible.

[Jungle Rat]

What previous police dealings? Or are you following the media?