The Goat Pen

"Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun.""

I take that to read he did call the pound, and the pound said if you are scared of that dog, shoot his ass.

Pepper Spray takes a few seconds to take effect???? Really?

I'd also say that guy with a gun in his pocket isn't going to initiate a shoving match.

Totally disagree. Guns make you bold. Make you believe that you can do things that otherwise you wouldn't. A guy with a gun isn't going to initiate a shoving match? You might not. But to say it won't happen is a bit much.

eCat wrote:"Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun.""

I take that to read he did call the pound, and the pound said if you are scared of that dog, shoot his ass.

hearsay. Get someone to testify to it. Doesn't make since really. In my city, if a dog is runny loose that's potentially dangerous, the pound will come for him when called (and they aren't armed). Then again maybe Zimmerman will testify, I was walking around with a gun looking for a dog to shoot.

Owlman wrote:Pepper Spray takes a few seconds to take effect???? Really?

On a dog, yes. Humans, no

thats not what Derschowitz says.

You either misunderstood Derschowitz or he mistated his point. You may not use deadly force in a fight you initiate. This defense had been used by drug dealers and gang-bangers and was not accepted.

sardis wrote:

Owlman wrote:Pepper Spray takes a few seconds to take effect???? Really?

On a dog, yes. Humans, no

That's got to be a really poorly designed neurological feedback system that dogs have then. 3 seconds is a very long time.

I've seen it used on dogs (at least on my dog). The post-woman didn't want to walk around my car but wanted to go the shortest distance so she sprayed my barking dog who was on the chain. Sadly for her, my mother and I were outside and saw her do it.

Of course, this was 30 years ago. Maybe the stuff they use now isn't as effective as what they had then.

Owlman wrote:

eCat wrote:"Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun.""

I take that to read he did call the pound, and the pound said if you are scared of that dog, shoot his ass.

hearsay. Get someone to testify to it. Doesn't make since really. In my city, if a dog is runny loose that's potentially dangerous, the pound will come for him when called (and they aren't armed). Then again maybe Zimmerman will testify, I was walking around with a gun looking for a dog to shoot.

Maybe you live in a nicer town than Zimmerman. Usually nicer neighborhoods get better response times.

Owlman wrote:

I'd also say that guy with a gun in his pocket isn't going to initiate a shoving match.

Totally disagree. Guns make you bold. Make you believe that you can do things that otherwise you wouldn't. A guy with a gun isn't going to initiate a shoving match? You might not. But to say it won't happen is a bit much.

why would you take a chance of getting popped in the mouth when you can just pull the gun out and end it?The whole reason you carry the gun is to avoid getting your ass kicked. I agree it makes you bold but I think your going down a line of thought that doesn't add up. I can readily believe that Zimmerman was talking shit to Martin to the point it enraged Martin with Zimmerman knowing that push comes to shove he has a gun and will deter Martin from attacking him, but I don't see Zimmerman doing the finger in the chest poke in this situation. You just don't go thru Concealed Carry Weapons training with the mindset you'll enter into a fist fight against an attacker and then shoot him if it gets out of hand.

What I think happened is Zimmerman is scared shitless, but knows that if he doesn't follow Martin, by the time the police leave he is gone, or worse, has broken into a neighbors home - a neighbor that trusted Zimmerman to look out for her. As was said, Martin didn't take kindly to being followed by this squatty latino looking dude and spoke his mind about it.

What is interesting to me is Brooklyn and I see the exact same scenario happening - one he described a few days ago in his post but we both arrive at different conclusions about Zimmermans role in the incident.

all I know is, Cops don't fuck around with barking dogs. They shoot first and then don't apologize to the owner afterwards.

That would be an interesting alibi for him. Having a pit bull that is often loose in the neighborhood as exhibited by the 3 calls made to Animal services and him being told to protect himself with a gun. Now we just created the rationale for him to carry a gun.

I can readily believe the Zimmerman was talking shit to Martin to the point it enraged Martin with Zimmerman knowing that push comes to shove he has a gun, but I don't see Zimmerman doing the finger in the chest poke in this situation.

Possible. And I can also see Zimmerman getting out of his car, running after Martin, getting in Martin's way and confronting him, demanding what he was doing here and when Martin told him fuck you and tried to walk around him, grabbing him (which after stalking and following is a felonious assault) and then having Martin shove back.

The first scenario, Zimmerman goes free. The second Zimmerman should be convicted. Both are possible, and we'll have to wait until the evidence comes out. Again, a lot depends on where the shooting occurred relative to where Zimmerman's car is located, where his home is and how long after the 911 call this occurred. Time line and location.

Totally disagree. Guns make you bold.

This seems like a wildly speculative statement, with probably very little real evidence to back it up.

what is the good of a neighborhood watch if watching people in the neighborhood is considered stalking?

You can follow them in a car but not on foot?

he wasn't on neighborhood watch, at least according to his brother (not supposed to carry a gun on neighborhood watch).

aTm wrote:

Totally disagree. Guns make you bold.

This seems like a wildly speculative statement, with probably very little real evidence to back it up.

Didn't give any. But it's true.

I worked security one summer in college and we weren't allowed to have any kind of weapon with good reason.

I can tell you its damned unnerving walking around a high crime area at 3am without a gun and maybe even more unnerving if you have one.

Given the choice, I'd rather avoid the situation altogether than choose to be there with a gun.

I also won't be going into any bars or federal parks where patrons are armed. If its at a point where the citizenry needs to be armed in certain public places in a civil society, then I'm not going to those places.

I've never done a neighborhood watch. I did run down a hit-and-run DUI once.

Saw an accident. Stopped to offer assistance. Guy had a bloody nose but was okay. Walked over to the car to check the driver who caused the wreck (ran a red and T-Boned the bloody nose guy).

As I walked up, this driver took off. I offered chase.

About a mile down the road the drunk driver pulled over. I am a gun owner with a CCP. Had a .45 in the glovebox. Never even thought about pulling it out. Then again, I've done beach karate, so there was no real need.

Anyway, the drunk hit-and-runner was female- a cute redhead.

you offer to let her go for a blowjob?

The .45 is the perfect weapon for mowing down drunken hotties.