The Goat Pen

"IBs got a boner'

"Not at the moment rat, but this entire thing is predictable"

Your boners??

"I'll take an IQ test vs you or hedge or DS or any of you at any moment. Are you game rat? Are you man enough to match your wits vs me?"

I don't care what your IQ is, you're still an idiot. But let me assure you, your IQ is not very high...

okay hedge, whatever you say

eCat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:45 pm

Tree wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:46 am Ron Paul was right that we needed to get out of Afghanistan and he's good on some other issues as well, but at the end of the day his ideology of gutting government plays directly into what the corporate empire wants. Electing him would ultimately be expediting the collapse of the country, which is pretty obviously coming anyway although we don't have to go out of our way to hasten it.

but going trillions into debt doesn't

I would say RP , if anything, would have extended the demise. His way of government seems archaic now as people are demanding forgiveness of loans, government provided health care, readily accept depriving people of first amendment rights, federal overreach into state issues and openly support a reduced police presence. Ironically it appears those same people are for a continuation of war in foreign countries.

RP would have gutted the government as it relates to bureaucracy - the department of education - is the DOE really doing a great job in providing standard education for all students in America? How about HUD - do Americans enjoy government subsidized housing? Foreign Policy - Certainly America First would have new meaning under RP as opposed to Trump. RP would also support market demands for no minimum wage. People would lose their minds over that now but he would not step in to alter a glut of employees or a lack of them - the market would dictate the value of the worker. He would have eliminated any social engineering like affirmative action and quotas in schools.

There will never be a president like RP because the country has taken a huge step to the left and libertarian policies , both fiscal and socially of individual freedoms, is out of place with the modern agenda.

Loan forgiveness and M4A are genuine lefty issues. I don't know if you noticed, but the Democratic party has declared war on lefties and issues like this because the DNC is now right of center. The DNC is also extremely pro-war but the left is anti-war because all it does it get (usually) poor Americans killed so a select few can make a ton of money.

And RP is a bigger idiot than I thought if he supports no MW. Markets left to their own devices without proper management and regulation will crush a large segment of the population. That's not how you want to run a society.

And IB, I'm one of the dumb ones so if you care to trim that down some I might give it another go.

Tree wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:51 pm And IB, I'm one of the dumb ones so if you care to trim that down some I might give it another go.

I'll simplify

USA

1776 -> May 1865 Agricultural age
A farmer with a 90 IQ made less than a farmer with a 110 IQ, but not that much less
labor was king. land was king. He who worked his land the hardest made the most money

June 1865 -> August 1945 Industrial Age
Corporations were forming. The peasant was now free to own a piece of a large company
Stocks, bonds, things were available to the citizen to be bought to make money outside of land
You didn't have to own land to become rich
A farmer with a 90 IQ didn't buy stock but the farmer with the 110 IQ did and grew wealthier through passive income
labor was still king as work was well formed, but corporations were largely only owned by the capitalist class

Sept 1945 -> 1991 Atomic Age
Immigration is becoming an issue, corporations want immigrants to do "well formed work"
the value of "well formed work" was declining as peasant immigration increased
mainframes were becoming common, coding was an actual career
new careers were being created that were not "well formed"
the number of jobs with "well formed work" was beginning to decline
higher education was king, not labor. Middle managerial roles were being created for the educated class who may or may not be smart
The person with the 90 IQ can only do "well formed work." the person with the 110 IQ can do work that is NOT well formed

Summer 1991 -> Today Information age
Immigration is everything, the only thing
value of "well formed work" has just about dropped to minimum wage
higher education is far too costly and only the academic wonks (those make a living in education) are saying over and over, there is no price too high to pay for good education. Of course, no one believes them
all new careers offer an abundance of jobs but none of those jobs are "well formed." There are virtually no more punch-in/punch-out jobs
the person with the 90 IQ goes on welfare and opiates and dies young. the person with the 110 IQ is worth $5,000,000 upon age 60

give that a go

Tree wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:47 pm

eCat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:45 pm

Tree wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:46 am Ron Paul was right that we needed to get out of Afghanistan and he's good on some other issues as well, but at the end of the day his ideology of gutting government plays directly into what the corporate empire wants. Electing him would ultimately be expediting the collapse of the country, which is pretty obviously coming anyway although we don't have to go out of our way to hasten it.

but going trillions into debt doesn't

I would say RP , if anything, would have extended the demise. His way of government seems archaic now as people are demanding forgiveness of loans, government provided health care, readily accept depriving people of first amendment rights, federal overreach into state issues and openly support a reduced police presence. Ironically it appears those same people are for a continuation of war in foreign countries.

RP would have gutted the government as it relates to bureaucracy - the department of education - is the DOE really doing a great job in providing standard education for all students in America? How about HUD - do Americans enjoy government subsidized housing? Foreign Policy - Certainly America First would have new meaning under RP as opposed to Trump. RP would also support market demands for no minimum wage. People would lose their minds over that now but he would not step in to alter a glut of employees or a lack of them - the market would dictate the value of the worker. He would have eliminated any social engineering like affirmative action and quotas in schools.

There will never be a president like RP because the country has taken a huge step to the left and libertarian policies , both fiscal and socially of individual freedoms, is out of place with the modern agenda.

Loan forgiveness and M4A are genuine lefty issues. I don't know if you noticed, but the Democratic party has declared war on lefties and issues like this because the DNC is now right of center. The DNC is also extremely pro-war but the left is anti-war because all it does it get (usually) poor Americans killed so a select few can make a ton of money.

And RP is a bigger idiot than I thought if he supports no MW. Markets left to their own devices without proper management and regulation will crush a large segment of the population. That's not how you want to run a society.

ridiculous. first I don't think anyone believes the democratic part is right of center in any capacity - not on fiscal or social fronts.

and minimum wage is a government crutch.

If we controlled immigration and workers pushed for continued unionization of American jobs, there would be no need for minimum wage. Workers would have their own voice and not dependent on a wage set by the government. Workers would prosper in a strong economy and the elimination of market bubbles would go a long way in preventing hard downward recessions.

You are completely immersed in this idea that people need government to regulate their lives for prosperity , yet time and time again, we see that government puts a cap on prosperity as it tries to serves the needs of the few at the expense of the many.

reporting that there are at least 6K Americans waiting to get out of Afghanistan

I bet 6000 is low. Theres a 20 year war industry there and the government existed one day and was gone the next. Theres going to be just shitloads of people who didnt have their crap together enough to get to the airport on a moments notice. Then, to top it off, the US state dept told them all day Sunday not to try and come and to shelter in place and now they’re like “come to the airport but we cant help you get here”

Its incredible, Taliban interest in good PR and whatever control they actually have over their soldiers are all thats protecting those people.

The DNC and GOP are not that far apart except on issues of environment and identity stuff. Both are heavily pro war, pro corporate, Wall St, etc. The DNC has a progressive faction but it's pretty small and is routinely demonized and trounced.

I'm with you on strong labor unions and controlling immigration, two historically left stances. If it turns out that we do that and it appears a MW is not needed, I'll happily concede that point too although it's a pretty complex matter and I don't think your level of certainty is warranted.

And I'm for government doing it's job. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that we've let ours become corrupt and available to the highest bidder does not mean the answer is to get rid of it. That just creates a power vacuum that will end very badly.

Tree,

the left most certainly does NOT control immigration. The left's position on immigration law is not to enforce it. The left's position on immigration law is to ignore it. The left's position on immigration is "all are welcome." That is their position.

You want to see real laws on immigration? Look at the laws in Singapore, Australia, or New Zealand. If that is too far away look at how restrictive Canada is on their immigration law (and why.) Then ask yourself why those kinds of immigration laws can't be written in the United States? I'll give you a hint, the left would never go for it.

Tree wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:34 pmAnd I'm for government doing it's job. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that we've let ours become corrupt and available to the highest bidder does not mean the answer is to get rid of it. That just creates a power vacuum that will end very badly.

Yes tree, some of our elected leaders are corrupt. But that is really not the issue with how government is failing to do its job. Government is failing to do its job because the people elected in government to legislate are not smart enough to legislate. Let me repeat that, they are not smart enough to legislate.

What do I mean by that? Here is one of my favorite Senators admitting that is not nearly as smart as the person he is interviewing!



That kind of discussion is what SHOULD BE HAPPENING when legislators talk to business owners when the government is not exactly sure what kind of legislation they should be writing OR if they should be writing any?!!! Kennedy was willing to spot Zuckerberg 75 IQ points. And he was ready to admit, that he didn't know everything.

But most of our legislators are not like Kennedy. They are instead, political and prideful. And the political path for regulation is deferring to ignorance and agencies and NOT bills to become laws. In order to regulate companies in the information age (where the business model is ever changing), our elected legislators go and create bullshit agencies (like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, and so on) empower such agencies (and their appointed, NOT elected leaders) with real authority and power, because our legislators are not competent enough to write a specific LAW regulating business, and then give that LAW to business and to law enforcement so that they may enforce it. They just go and create agencies who change the rules as they go along because our legislators aren't smart enough to keep up with the information age and keep legislating and regulating.

Jump

you first

aTm wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:25 pm I bet 6000 is low. Theres a 20 year war industry there and the government existed one day and was gone the next. Theres going to be just shitloads of people who didnt have their crap together enough to get to the airport on a moments notice. Then, to top it off, the US state dept told them all day Sunday not to try and come and to shelter in place and now they’re like “come to the airport but we cant help you get here”

Its incredible, Taliban interest in good PR and whatever control they actually have over their soldiers are all thats protecting those people.

Also, I’m sure there are Americans in other parts of the country who have to get to Kabul somehow

Always have your go bag ready. Always

Embarrassing. We trained a bunch of pussies.

lets hope the Taliban leadership, who at the moment are talking sensible, stay that way in allowing Americans out.

innocentbystander wrote: ↑
Think about it tree what good does no-fault-divorce law, do for stupid people? How are stupid people (who need stable marriages more than anybody) helped by a marriage contract that is not a contract? All it does is deny marriage to stupid people. So all their children are born in illegitimacy and rot. And you wonder why they hate rich people?

What good does Speedy Cash dealers and Title Loan dealers, do for stupid people? Why hasn't AOC written legislation to stop this criminal level of usury? Every Republican would sign that bill if she created it. What good does government created lottery tickets and scratch tickets do for stupid people? All these things do is make stupid people, poorer. That's it.

So, you do realize part of contract law is that both parties are free to contract with whom they please, correct? You also realize that the constitution allows people to associate with anyone of their choosing, correct? Furthermore, there are costs to break any contract, and whether that cost is a minimum wage earner scraping the money together to rent a new place and eventually file for a simple, absolute divorce that dissolves the marriage and nothing else since they have no assets or it is a relatively well off person knowing that at least half of the wealth accumulated by means of efforts during marriage will awarded to and then belong to the other spouse (on top of possible child support / spousal support) and that one’s amount of guaranteed, unfettered access to ones child(ren) being affected.

Divorce is far from free and easy, and it isn’t cheap.

Divorce lawyers: don’t leave home without us.

With regards to predatory lending: in South Carolina they have had a free for all thanks to the GOP. NC’s Democrats cracked down on them in the 90’s and early 2000’s, and despite their best efforts, the GOP has not been able to roll back much of those protections because of optics/public outcry.

Tree wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:47 pm

eCat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:45 pm

Tree wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:46 am Ron Paul was right that we needed to get out of Afghanistan and he's good on some other issues as well, but at the end of the day his ideology of gutting government plays directly into what the corporate empire wants. Electing him would ultimately be expediting the collapse of the country, which is pretty obviously coming anyway although we don't have to go out of our way to hasten it.

but going trillions into debt doesn't

I would say RP , if anything, would have extended the demise. His way of government seems archaic now as people are demanding forgiveness of loans, government provided health care, readily accept depriving people of first amendment rights, federal overreach into state issues and openly support a reduced police presence. Ironically it appears those same people are for a continuation of war in foreign countries.

RP would have gutted the government as it relates to bureaucracy - the department of education - is the DOE really doing a great job in providing standard education for all students in America? How about HUD - do Americans enjoy government subsidized housing? Foreign Policy - Certainly America First would have new meaning under RP as opposed to Trump. RP would also support market demands for no minimum wage. People would lose their minds over that now but he would not step in to alter a glut of employees or a lack of them - the market would dictate the value of the worker. He would have eliminated any social engineering like affirmative action and quotas in schools.

There will never be a president like RP because the country has taken a huge step to the left and libertarian policies , both fiscal and socially of individual freedoms, is out of place with the modern agenda.

Loan forgiveness and M4A are genuine lefty issues. I don't know if you noticed, but the Democratic party has declared war on lefties and issues like this because the DNC is now right of center. The DNC is also extremely pro-war but the left is anti-war because all it does it get (usually) poor Americans killed so a select few can make a ton of money.

And RP is a bigger idiot than I thought if he supports no MW. Markets left to their own devices without proper management and regulation will crush a large segment of the population. That's not how you want to run a society.

Bingo