The Goat Pen

Shhhh....nothing to see here

This is choice...coming from a Democrat.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/opinions ... index.html

me in 2 weeks walking around with a mask and my CDC card

sardis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:41 pm This is choice...coming from a Democrat.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/opinions ... index.html

"The truth is: the Biden administration is picking up the pieces of a humanitarian catastrophe Trump left at our doorstep."

yea, that catastrophe was hundreds of thousands of children being abandoned by their parents to come to this country once a sympathetic president was in place

and now because he has presented himself as the open border guy, he is the one that is going to be warehousing these kids.

Why can't a simple "follow the rules on immigration to this country" be followed?

Here is the truth: Over 70% of the world lives on less than $10 a day. We can't import the worlds poverty to this country no matter what a a fuck stick who parents are immigrants has to say about it.

sardis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:41 pm This is choice...coming from a Democrat.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/opinions ... index.html

Since 1991, and the end/bankruptcy of the Soviet Union, republicans and democrats do NOT have a common enemy. That is 30 years, no common enemy. Ask republicans who the common enemy to the United States is for liberals and conservatives and they will say Islamic Fundamentalism. Ask liberals who the common enemy to the United States is for liberals and conservatives and they will say climate change. Since no one has any authority to choose the common enemy for anyone else, no one is talking. We have been talking past each other for almost 3 fucking decades.

And in congress, no one has any authority to force any other congressmen (house rep of Senator) to sit there and listen to anyone else speak about anything. When Tommy Tuberville stood up and started talking about the border, democrats stood up and walked right out of the room. Some of them will not even speak to Tuberville for the next 2 years. They don't have to, they can (and will) shun. They are good at doing that in DC.

I think it would be better for everyone if we at least had a conversation. And we haven't had a conversation on immigration (or anything political) where we were talking about the same thing for almost 30 years. I think conservatives WANT to talk about immigration but liberals would rather not speak of it. I think liberals WANT to talk about climate change but conservatives want to see the science and the math around how carbon has an impact on temperature. I think liberals WANT to talk about men cutting off their own dicks and giving themselves vaginas and saying that makes them women now, but conservatives want to bring scientists into the discussion to ask about what we all learned about chromosomes and why isn't this a mental health issue? So nothing is communicated. Wouldn't it be better if...

Republican:
I want the border closed.
These people are peasants.
None of them will be brain surgeons.
None of them will be scientists.
They just want money. They send their children here (alone) to get money. That's it.
The best they can do is clean your office, never work in it.
The worst they can do is get drunk and drive uninsured, unregistered beaters, and run over and kill small children if they aren't raping our daughters.
They need to go.
Lets have an immigration policy the way they do in Canada, Australia, Singapore, or New Zealand based on money and/or STEM education and NOT the one we have currently (based on family relations, you get in, your brother gets in, your half step sister gets in, you all get on social security) because is blows and does not serve the interests of the economy of the United States of America

Democrats:
We think all republicans are racists against brown and black people.
All are welcome across the border, all people.
We don't care if migrants drive down wages for union people because, well, fuck them, they are increasingly voting republican
Asians need to have their scores on the SAT reduced to let more brown and black people into Ivy League universities. It is not fair to black or brown people that half of the student body at Berkley are Asian people. The hell with white people.
Republicans are just racist if they want dead people off the voting roles
Republicans are just racist if they believe in the concept of math because math is racist
Republicans are just racist if they to continue to allow private citizens to own guns because all that does is allow white people to point those guns at black and brown people
Republicans are just racist if they continue to support the police because for Republicans, the police are there to protect white and Asian people from black and brown people who only want to steal their stuff or sex their daughters. So defund the police.
The only purpose police should ever serve is to be at the beck and call of women (all women, regardless of their nationality or legal status) who want to throw the man of the house OUT of the house at any moment for any reason. And this includes illegal alien women, lets call this policy "sanctuary cities." So we can't defund THESE police.

At least now we are being honest with each other about what we feel. But these conversations NEVER happen. That is because we don't have common enemies anymore. So the other PARTY becomes the enemy. And so you seek out whatever authority and power in government that you can get and you ACT on how you feel without discussing it. And no one talks.

Except here.

Do any of you actually know of anybody who has lost their job to an illegal immigrant? Any friends that do? Their friends?

Jungle Rat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:34 pm Do any of you actually know of anybody who has lost their job to an illegal immigrant? Any friends that do? Their friends?

Yes, unfortunately.

It was two fold, they lost their job AND (when they went to another company) their job paid less. These were a couple of younger bachelors in our church. They both worked for a construction company here in the Southwest. The outfit they were with paid them both $22 a hour, standard construction pay in Arizona. With just a wee bit of overtime. Not great. But not bad. A living. Well, that rate made their company uncompetitive with outfits that hired unlawful labor (illegal aliens) so they were not winning bids or getting contracts. So the company went out of business and they lost their jobs. It happens, they didn't complain. And they found that they could get on with other companies, no problem. But they are now working side by side with illegal aliens and their compensation went all the way down to $14 an hour. They get what the illegals get. Bad pay, a 16 year old in an Inn-n-Out Burger in Phoenix makes $16 an hour. And if they complain about it to law enforcement (that their coworkers are criminals as is their employer), they risk exposing their firm to I-C-E and the company goes out of business and they lose their jobs. Again.

See how that works rat?

The thing is, I have counselled these kids, they are not bright. And when I say not bright, I'm thinking, IQ of about 88, maybe 90. Tops. They are not going to get a job in an office. They are not going to get a job working with computers. They are never-ever going to pass a Calculus class in college and earn a STEM degree. That will not happen for these two young men, not in this lifetime. Working hard is their way to success, their only possible path. They can't work smart rat. And the only way they are going to be successful is with a terrific labor shortage due to restricting migration of peasants into the United States. If there is a peasant competing with them on wages for labor, sure they can find work, but it pays far less than it once did. Supply and demand.

Rat, these two guys need you and I (and all of us here) to insist that the border be enforced. They can't speak for themselves. So we have to do it. And that means voting for people like Trump even if it makes you sick. That is the only way. Joe Biden? Kamala Harris? The two of them would rather these two guys hurry up and overdose on meth and die so that government doesn't have to support them later in life.

A simple yes would have done. I'm not reading all that stuff.

Jungle Rat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:17 pm A simple yes would have done. I'm not reading all that stuff.

Someone else might read it. It will be for them.

None of these poop flinging monkeys have the attention span

Jungle Rat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:47 pm None of these poop flinging monkeys have the attention span

That is true of almost everyone, everywhere, unfortunately.

IB, have you ever known anyone who lost their job to an illegal immigrant?

hedge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 pm IB, have you ever known anyone who lost their job to an illegal immigrant?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10&start=31700#p187761

not only do illegal aliens cost them their jobs, it is costing them the earning power of their career

hedge, (everyone),

There is so much we can say about illegal immigration that is NOT being said because one side has essentially (and deliberately) put the entire discussion out of bounds by calling any discussion on the matter racist. That is lazy. That is happening in 2021, but that laziness on the matters of discussion illegal aliens would not have happened in 1981. That is because back then, we weren't Coming Apart.

Charles Murray wrote the book Coming Apart the divide in the white community from 1960 to 2010. You guys might want to read it. Its a quick read. But it gets into the actual meat on what is happening out there. I'll give an example from the book, how it relates to how I grew up (personally), and this will make sense. My father worked as a systems analyst for almost 30 years. His colleagues and coworkers were other business people and technical people. Those were also his close friends. But he and my mother were also each in two different weekly bowling leagues, one mixed genders, the others all women and all men. And in their leagues, they bowled with lawyers, accountants, executives, construction workers, garbage collectors, warehousemen, and home builders. Everyone, all professions. And as such, they had social discussions that spanned pretty much all working classes, from the top down. Everyone was tied in, and what concerned the garbage collector, the medical doctor (who bowled right after him on his team), he cared.

That is ALL GONE. The bowling alleys are largely all bankrupt and abandoned now. If you see a functional bowling alley, likely it is a Dave and Busters and has a laser tag, a pizza parlor, a pool hall, and 500 ticket dispensing arcade games. And they aren't going to have many leagues. And that is a just a tiny snippet of the problem, there isn't as much social interaction anymore between our working classes the way there used to be. It just doesn't happen. We don't care about each other anymore.

So when hedge or rat or any of you ask if anyone here knows anyone else who lost a job to an illegal immigrant, that is an unimportant question. The bigger question is, does anyone here have any real close friends or social connections who do work that illegal aliens do? Do you bowl with them? Do you go to church with them? Do you do anything with them? Likely, the answer is no. And the reasons are in that book by Charles Murray.

So the democrats can get away with being assholes and accuse anyone who even mentions curtailing illegal immigration as being racist, because such a small portion of our community has any direct connection to illegal immigration. It becomes nothing more than rhetoric because it means nothing to us personally. I am not going to lose my software development job to a pregnant latina digging a hole under Trump's wall to give birth to an anchor baby. But someone in my church, will, and did. How often do you have social contact with people who are not in your immediate family or professional, circle? Do you have ANY contact with them?

These snobs?

innocentbystander wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:42 pm hedge, (everyone),

There is so much we can say about illegal immigration that is NOT being said because one side has essentially (and deliberately) put the entire discussion out of bounds by calling any discussion on the matter racist. That is lazy. That is happening in 2021, but that laziness on the matters of discussion illegal aliens would not have happened in 1981. That is because back then, we weren't Coming Apart.

Charles Murray wrote the book Coming Apart the divide in the white community from 1960 to 2010. You guys might want to read it. Its a quick read. But it gets into the actual meat on what is happening out there. I'll give an example from the book, how it relates to how I grew up (personally), and this will make sense. My father worked as a systems analyst for almost 30 years. His colleagues and coworkers were other business people and technical people. Those were also his close friends. But he and my mother were also each in two different weekly bowling leagues, one mixed genders, the others all women and all men. And in their leagues, they bowled with lawyers, accountants, executives, construction workers, garbage collectors, warehousemen, and home builders. Everyone, all professions. And as such, they had social discussions that spanned pretty much all working classes, from the top down. Everyone was tied in, and what concerned the garbage collector, the medical doctor (who bowled right after him on his team), he cared.

That is ALL GONE. The bowling alleys are largely all bankrupt and abandoned now. If you see a functional bowling alley, likely it is a Dave and Busters and has a laser tag, a pizza parlor, a pool hall, and 500 ticket dispensing arcade games. And they aren't going to have many leagues. And that is a just a tiny snippet of the problem, there isn't as much social interaction anymore between our working classes the way there used to be. It just doesn't happen. We don't care about each other anymore.

So when hedge or rat or any of you ask if anyone here knows anyone else who lost a job to an illegal immigrant, that is an unimportant question. The bigger question is, does anyone here have any real close friends or social connections who do work that illegal aliens do? Do you bowl with them? Do you go to church with them? Do you do anything with them? Likely, the answer is no. And the reasons are in that book by Charles Murray.

So the democrats can get away with being assholes and accuse anyone who even mentions curtailing illegal immigration as being racist, because such a small portion of our community has any direct connection to illegal immigration. It becomes nothing more than rhetoric because it means nothing to us personally. I am not going to lose my software development job to a pregnant latina digging a hole under Trump's wall to give birth to an anchor baby. But someone in my church, will, and did. How often do you have social contact with people who are not in your immediate family or professional, circle? Do you have ANY contact with them?

So, AMF bowling alleys are to blame for everything going wrong?

"We don't care about each other anymore."

I never cared...

DooKSucks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:22 pm

innocentbystander wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:42 pm hedge, (everyone),

There is so much we can say about illegal immigration that is NOT being said because one side has essentially (and deliberately) put the entire discussion out of bounds by calling any discussion on the matter racist. That is lazy. That is happening in 2021, but that laziness on the matters of discussion illegal aliens would not have happened in 1981. That is because back then, we weren't Coming Apart.

Charles Murray wrote the book Coming Apart the divide in the white community from 1960 to 2010. You guys might want to read it. Its a quick read. But it gets into the actual meat on what is happening out there. I'll give an example from the book, how it relates to how I grew up (personally), and this will make sense. My father worked as a systems analyst for almost 30 years. His colleagues and coworkers were other business people and technical people. Those were also his close friends. But he and my mother were also each in two different weekly bowling leagues, one mixed genders, the others all women and all men. And in their leagues, they bowled with lawyers, accountants, executives, construction workers, garbage collectors, warehousemen, and home builders. Everyone, all professions. And as such, they had social discussions that spanned pretty much all working classes, from the top down. Everyone was tied in, and what concerned the garbage collector, the medical doctor (who bowled right after him on his team), he cared.

That is ALL GONE. The bowling alleys are largely all bankrupt and abandoned now. If you see a functional bowling alley, likely it is a Dave and Busters and has a laser tag, a pizza parlor, a pool hall, and 500 ticket dispensing arcade games. And they aren't going to have many leagues. And that is a just a tiny snippet of the problem, there isn't as much social interaction anymore between our working classes the way there used to be. It just doesn't happen. We don't care about each other anymore.

So when hedge or rat or any of you ask if anyone here knows anyone else who lost a job to an illegal immigrant, that is an unimportant question. The bigger question is, does anyone here have any real close friends or social connections who do work that illegal aliens do? Do you bowl with them? Do you go to church with them? Do you do anything with them? Likely, the answer is no. And the reasons are in that book by Charles Murray.

So the democrats can get away with being assholes and accuse anyone who even mentions curtailing illegal immigration as being racist, because such a small portion of our community has any direct connection to illegal immigration. It becomes nothing more than rhetoric because it means nothing to us personally. I am not going to lose my software development job to a pregnant latina digging a hole under Trump's wall to give birth to an anchor baby. But someone in my church, will, and did. How often do you have social contact with people who are not in your immediate family or professional, circle? Do you have ANY contact with them?

So, AMF bowling alleys are to blame for everything going wrong?

No DS.

This is not about blame. There is no blame in what I wrote. I am only explaining why we don't care about each other anymore. What used to tie our various social classes together (bowling leagues, bingo halls, PTA, VFW, the Shriners, church, boy scouts, girl scouts, little league baseball, American Legion, the free masons, etc) things where the construction worker was as socially active a participant as the medical doctor, where their ONLY commonality was that they were all US citizens, much of that cohesion is gone. So your social connections to people outside of your professional class, they don't exist the way they did in the 1950s, the 1960s, the 1970s, or even the 80s. It's gone. So when it comes to matters of discussing important things like illegal immigration, many of the policy makers see this as nothing more than a matter of racism because they have no direct, personal, social connections to people who were harmed or ruined financially by the presence of illegal alien labor. They don't understand because it doesn't negatively impact their lives. So they figure it doesn't negatively impact ANYONE'S life.

10ac wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:54 pmThese snobs?

Well, I think it may be time to at least identify why the discussion around illegal immigration is either taboo or so completely misunderstood. Maybe the snobs will begin to understand?

We probably won't