Florida State Seminoles

[Owlman]

One problem is that you can be both white and hispanic. Hispanic doesn't really indicate race. A blonde guy from Spain could walk right off the flight from the whitey homeland and is also hispanic.

Exactly. Charlie Sheen and Anthony Quinn are Hispanic. So is Lynda Carter (who can so get it).

Raquel Welch.

[aTm]

I just thought they always threw rocks instead.

You're thinking of palestinians...

[Bklyn]

It doesn't matter what color killed what. A person killed another person illegally and should be faced with some murder charge.

On the individual level I agree whole-heartedly. However, when speaking of a horrifying trend you have to look at those factors, too. Otherwise, you may be ignoring a larger problem that could be addressed (if not solved, in totality) by actions or policy changes.

It would be myopic and arguably counterproductive to not factor in the larger drivers of bad actions.

[Bklyn]

Raquel Welch.

Who can so get it, too. (at least she could 30 years ago)

[eCat]

It doesn't matter what color killed what. A person killed another person illegally and should be faced with some murder charge.

On the individual level I agree whole-heartedly. However, when speaking of a horrifying trend you have to look at those factors, too. Otherwise, you may be ignoring a larger problem that could be addressed (if not solved, in totality) by actions or policy changes.

It would be myopic and arguably counterproductive to not factor in the larger drivers of bad actions.

like Cops tazing citizens

[sardis]

It doesn't matter what color killed what. A person killed another person illegally and should be faced with some murder charge.

On the individual level I agree whole-heartedly. However, when speaking of a horrifying trend you have to look at those factors, too. Otherwise, you may be ignoring a larger problem that could be addressed (if not solved, in totality) by actions or policy changes.

It would be myopic and arguably counterproductive to not factor in the larger drivers of bad actions.

Really? government is going to solve racism and violence?

[Bklyn]

Who said government?

or more specifically, why do you think I was only talking about government?

[sardis]

You mentioned "policy changes". Not sure who else would make policy changes?

[Bklyn]

Police departments can change policy. Other bureaucracies can change policies. Stores/companies can change policies. Governments can change policies. Any manner of institutions, public and private, can change policies in the face of information that tells them that actions may not be simply confined to discrete individual bad actions, but a larger systematic issue with culture or ignorance.

My statement was about the value of information in a larger context changing how bad actions are viewed and dealt with. So, while it's bad for a person to kill another person illegally, as you say, I think understanding the larger drivers to that action may make it so a killing doesn't happen in the first place. I think there are opportunities to address root causes when the optics of the situation are appropriately adjusted.

[Bklyn]

Also, who the fuck under the age of 50 still says the word "coon?" Jesus, I've been living in the Northeast too long, I guess.

Honestly, I didn't expect that much convo on Trayvon Martin. I thought it was pretty cut and dry shameful shit. My personal fortune was bet on the TSA item to be the topic that would have caught on as a controversial, back and forth, topic. Hmph. Shows what I know.

[eCat]

I thought this was interesting in response to Paul Ryans budget proposal......

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney didn't pull any punches in his attack on Paul Ryan's budget, as he declared that supporters of the budget -- and by extension, Ryan himself -- are "aggressively and deliberately ignorant" about the need for green energy and other programs slated for cuts.

"You have to be aggressively and deliberately ignorant of the world economy not to know and understand that clean energy technologies are going to play a huge role in the 21st century," Carney said after decrying the clean energy spending cuts in Ryan's plan. "You have to have severely diminished capacity to understand what drives economic growth in industrialized countries in this century if you do not understand that education is the key that unlocks the door to prosperity," he added.

Carney concluded that "the budget proposed by Chairman Ryan and supported overwhelmingly already by Republicans suggests that those problems" -- aggressive ignorance and diminished comprehension -- "exist in the minds of the supporters of that plan."

The press secretary concluded by criticizing "the knuckleheaded reporting that suggests or buys the critique that we’re somehow not proud of the accomplishment.

----------------------------------

Clearly they are proponents in letting the government decide the winners and losers of the energy market.

[Bklyn]

What has been the government's historical role in growth industries?

[eCat]

no idea but suffice to say I don't trust them to make the right decision for us.

Its the height of arrogance for that guy to call Ryan small minded for proposing cutting funding to energy startups after Solyndra.

Most likely there will be some breakthrough at a monumental cost to the taxpayer resulting in a cherry picked monopoly tied to a key donor

[Owlman]

Clearly they are proponents in letting the government decide the winners and losers of the energy market.

The govt has always been involved in deciding the winners and losers of the energy market and of the transportation market. Energy is too fundamental to the lifeblood of the country so it has received subsidies and breaks to significantly promote it.

[Bklyn]

Its the height of arrogance for that guy to call Ryan small minded for proposing cutting funding to energy startups after Solyndra.

I may have more time to type on this tonight, but government has always made bets on growth industries. Always.

Solyndra was one failure out of many seeds sown. It's a poster child, but really a paper tiger. All venture investors take some losers with their winners. Mitt can explain that one well. In truth, within a private equity portfolio, your positive return is normally driven by a small minority of winners in a pile of losers. Most winners, however, return gangbusters.

Solyndra is a slogan (an effective one, obviously) but carries no real weight in the argument, on a substantive basis, IMO.

[Owlman]

Solyndra is a slogan (an effective one, obviously) but carries no real weight in the argument, on a substantive basis, IMO.

It does with those already predisposed to find fault with his policies.

[eCat]

I'm an equal opportunity person in finding faults.

Its not an Obama thing, its a government thing.

[Owlman]

Consistency is a great thing

[eCat]

I think there is another clear example in saving GM and then us getting the pos Chevy Volt.

A $40K electric car designed to compete in a market full of $16K fuel efficient automobiles and it can't even perform at the same level they can.

GM might have gone belly up without the governments help, but in its place may have been a highly efficient company that in turn delivered us a 300HP 40mpg truck for $25K and their resulting success employed 300K more people than GM had in 2006.

That or Ford sells an additional 300,000 F150's to replace the Silverado.

There may be a history of government picking winners and losers but that history doesn't show that Americans were the beneficiary of that approach.

[Bklyn]

How do you argue a negative? I don't think we were in a position, in 2008, to deal with the ramifications of what might occur if you allow GM to go under.

What I do know is that Michigan and Ohio would be beaten to hell if GM went down. The plants, dealerships, suppliers in addition to the GM employees would all have been turned out into the streets. That was an estimated million people with jobs on the line. That would not have been covered by Ford selling some more light duty trucks.

Ford would have had a hard time too, because the suppliers they use also contract with GM. If GM and Chrysler go away, then it impacts Ford supplier costs, as well.

It's just not as cut and dry as you laid out...and I don't know if the success or failure of the Volt matters in that respect.