The Goat Pen

I don't know if this has ever been posted on any of the PNNery threads, but here's an idea...

10 cents on the dollar. 10% of each person's pay check goes to the Federal government. No filing income tax at the end of the year. No refunds. I'm taxing welfare too.

make 30 grand a year? you pay 3K in taxes. make 3 Mil a year, you pay 300K in taxes. Don't tell me about ways to hide it, bonuses are taxable at the same rate. Off shore accounts? They pay 15% in taxes on interest.

What y'all think?

No, see that would make too much sense. This has been posted before. A flat tax is a great idea if you are one of the producers. 10% is 10% for everyone. It's great. It's simple, and it's FAIR because nobody is paying more than anyone else. You aren't punnished for working harder, and it doesn't discourage achievement.

But if you are one of the parasites then you don't like it that much because you think other people should pay for you. You think you should punnish hard work.

Liberals just hate that idea because they can't punnish achievement. It goes against the very fiber of their being to allow the producers to pay a reasonable tax rate.

That idea - called the "flat tax" and the "fair tax" - has been advocated before, especially by Steve Forbes. The mathematical problem is that 10% is probably not revenue neutral. To equal the tax revenues under the current system, that universal rate would probably have to be higher then 10%.

Also, a universal flat tax would probably be a political hot potato - it would be a huge tax decrease for the wealthy and a huge tax increase for the not so wealthy. For that reason alone, nobody in national office would vote for it. Voting to lower the taxes on the wealthy and raising the taxes of the not-so-wealthy is a guaranteed political death wish, except maybe in Texas and The Hamptons.

Finally, a universal flat tax would abolish the labyrinth of tax exemptions, exclusions, deductions, subsidies, set-asides, and other carefully crafted handiwork of the tax accountant/lawyer industry. They have battalions of lobbyists on K Street in Washington DC, all dedicated to the proposition that the flat tax never, ever sees the light of day.

What the hell are you talking about??? I never made a comment about global warming.

You were commenting on how hot it is in Arkansas. Perhaps I misunderstood you. Perhaps you were not mentioning the current heat wave in Arkansas as evidence supporting a broader argument supporting man-made global warming. Perhaps you were just concerned about the heat's effect on the poultry industry in Arkanasas because you patronize KFC often.

You were commenting on how hot it is in Arkansas. Perhaps I misunderstood you.

You didn't misunderstand me. Becuase I didn't make any comments about heat and Arkansas. You can't misunderstand what hasn't been said.

You are correct. That was Tick, not you. My apologies.

apology accepted

Prof is not too swift with things like 'accuracy'.

GBJs wrote:I don't know if this has ever been posted on any of the PNNery threads, but here's an idea...

10 cents on the dollar. 10% of each person's pay check goes to the Federal government. No filing income tax at the end of the year. No refunds. I'm taxing welfare too.

make 30 grand a year? you pay 3K in taxes. make 3 Mil a year, you pay 300K in taxes. Don't tell me about ways to hide it, bonuses are taxable at the same rate. Off shore accounts? They pay 15% in taxes on interest.

What y'all think?

I think it is great, but we do not have the political will to do this. This is a tax increase on 28% of working America. You see, a quarter of the people who work in this country, they don't pay any income tax, not a cent. They get all their Federal Income tax back in Earned Income Tax Credit. And with this system, the EITC goes away so, well, you have just raised their income tax from 0 to 10%. And every liberal in America will be screaming about how unfair that is.

47% of this country pays no income tax, because almost half of that 47% doesn't even work. The slightly larger half of that is what liberals call the oh-so-worthy "working poor." They don't pay taxes. They feed their familes. So, well, we don't tax them.

I would suggest no income tax. Instead, a 15% across the board, value added, federal consumption tax on all things consumed (in that sense, 15% tax on cars since the value is consumed, but no tax on houses because you don't consume the value of a building that will most likely out-live you.) But liberals would hate this since the 47% of America that pays no income tax, they INSTANTLY ALL pay 15% income tax. That can't possibly be fair.

We have our progressive tax system simply to insure that some people pay and others pay nothing. That isn't right, it isn't fair, it makes no sense, it isn't even reasonable, but it is there to champion people who truly do not have a pot to piss in...

yeah. Poor people got it sooooooooooo easy.

Owlman wrote:a giant fart. I couldn't help myself.

I apologize to all. After the fart, I could see it rising. After that, climate change.

[img2]http://verydemotivational.files.wordpre ... lease2.jpg[/img2]

This country has been punishing job creators and hard-workers since 1913. No coincidence society's gone straight to hell since that year.

Most of the flat tax folks have a minimum income level before that flat taxes kick in, say, $30,000.

The fear about the VAT is this:

(1) they'll still end up taxing your income (see: Europe)

(2) it makes the purchase of things even more difficult for the cost conscious and tax adverse

Big Orange Junky wrote:No, see that would make too much sense. This has been posted before. A flat tax is a great idea if you are one of the producers. 10% is 10% for everyone. It's great. It's simple, and it's FAIR because nobody is paying more than anyone else. You aren't punnished for working harder, and it doesn't discourage achievement.

But if you are one of the parasites then you don't like it that much because you think other people should pay for you. You think you should punnish hard work.

Liberals just hate that idea because they can't punnish achievement. It goes against the very fiber of their being to allow the producers to pay a reasonable tax rate.

No one has ever accused me of being a "liberal", therefore I don't care if I piss 'em off. If I have to pay, then everyone should, but NO ONE should pay a higher percentage of their income versus someone else. Ergo, the "bad people" who recieve welfare would be helping provide their own subsistence. Notice I said nothing about food stamps. I don't believe food should be taxed. Its not in Florida, it is in Alabama. Each state is different.

Professor Tiger wrote:That idea - called the "flat tax" and the "fair tax" - has been advocated before, especially by Steve Forbes. The mathematical problem is that 10% is probably not revenue neutral. To equal the tax revenues under the current system, that universal rate would probably have to be higher then 10%.

Also, a universal flat tax would probably be a political hot potato - it would be a huge tax decrease for the wealthy and a huge tax increase for the not so wealthy. For that reason alone, nobody in national office would vote for it. Voting to lower the taxes on the wealthy and raising the taxes of the not-so-wealthy is a guaranteed political death wish, except maybe in Texas and The Hamptons.

Finally, a universal flat tax would abolish the labyrinth of tax exemptions, exclusions, deductions, subsidies, set-asides, and other carefully crafted handiwork of the tax accountant/lawyer industry. They have battalions of lobbyists on K Street in Washington DC, all dedicated to the proposition that the flat tax never, ever sees the light of day.

You mean some bastard beat me to the idea!!! BTW:

1. If 10% is good enough for God,... perhaps we should lower the debt ceiling?

2. Your second paragraph alone is enough to make me vote for the Governor of Texas in our next PotUS election

3. Re. paragraph 3, I can't think of any better groups of people to start putting out of business. I'm sure Doc will find work. Hell, he could move to Jacksonville and become an apprentice A&P mechanic. I'd be willing to sign off his OJT as the work was proven and within about 3 years he could apply for his certificates....the lawyers on the other hand...

2. Your second paragraph alone is enough to make me vote for the Governor of Texas in our next PotUS election

I've noticed that the media has been practically begging Perry to run. But he gives me the creeps. As a Texas governor, he's like W's little brother. We all know how well W turned out.

Plus, he looks like Herb Tarlek on WKRP in Cincinnati. Or maybe Mitt Romney with a southern accent.

1. If 10% is good enough for God,... perhaps we should lower the debt ceiling?

Old testament. Under the new testament, we are no longer under Mosaic law but of faith.

10% for those less than 30k,
15% for all amounts above 30k but less than 100k (right now, they are about 20%),
20% for all amounts above 100k but less than 250k
25% for all amounts above 250k (right now, they are less than 17%)

and NO deductions except for charitable gifts.

As Jerry Brown argued in 2000, tax simplification. Can be done on a card.

Owlman wrote:

1. If 10% is good enough for God,... perhaps we should lower the debt ceiling?

Old testament. Under the new testament, we are no longer under Mosaic law but of faith.

10% for those less than 30k,
15% for all amounts above 30k but less than 100k (right now, they are about 20%),
20% for all amounts above 100k but less than 250k
25% for all amounts above 250k (right now, they are less than 17%)

and NO deductions except for charitable gifts.

As Jerry Brown argued in 2000, tax simplification. Can be done on a card.

And all that could be done via a weekly/bi-weekly/monthly payroll except the charitable gift stuff. My way gets rid of the IRS too.

What about the 401K tax deferral thingy? I like the Roth idea better. Tax me now not when I take it out. I also don't agree with inheritance tax(some one already paid tax on it) or capital gains...They want you to invest, but charge extra when you sell the stock? Profit is income, shouldn't be charged an extra 15% for taking the profit.

tHE IRS may be smaller, but you can't get rid of it, especially when it comes to corporations. All gifts and benefits are income. No home deductions, no deductions for children, no health care deductions, no difference in rates for married or unmarried. Also, all corporations would have to pay 5% of their gross every year, nothing on profit (the only thing this can be offset by is charitable gifts).

If 10% is good enough for God,...

That's Old Testament, and went the way of kosher diets. Now it's "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's..."