"BTW, the guard is carrying live ammo tonight in Minneapolis. Looks like non-lethal got tossed into the garbage this morning."
I do find it interesting (or something) that you seemed to have a lot of sympathy for Ruby Ridge and Waco and those rancher fuckers who occupied some place in California or Nevada or wherever the fuck it was, and that was all about government oppression, but yet you're ready to fire live ammo into these folks....
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:24 pm
by Jungle Rat
Tough guy hid in his bunker. Good lord.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:46 am
by bluetick
Yeah, not a good look for the president who criticizes how others handle protests - being led into the WH bunker with a relatively benign crowd making noise outside the gates.
Trump added the "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" to his overlong list of bad takes, but the real head-scratcher was his remark "MAGA loves the black people." Basically a tacit admission that his MAGA - HIS America - does not include the black people.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:50 am
by eCat
hedge wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 10:15 pm
"BTW, the guard is carrying live ammo tonight in Minneapolis. Looks like non-lethal got tossed into the garbage this morning."
I do find it interesting (or something) that you seemed to have a lot of sympathy for Ruby Ridge and Waco and those rancher fuckers who occupied some place in California or Nevada or wherever the fuck it was, and that was all about government oppression, but yet you're ready to fire live ammo into these folks....
big difference when they come onto your land and abuse you versus when you go out and burn down public buildings and private business because your bored. You're defending people who at best are bored, who at worst want anarchy because they don't like the president or LBGTQ or don't want to pay their student loans. Their idea of oppressed is not being able to afford HBO.
Here is the guy that burned down the Nashville Courthouse. I'm sure he did it because of George Floyd right? He's the kind of guy that will OD on heroin with his 2 year and 8 month old in the car of a walmart parking lot. He isn't oppressed, he is trash. I wish he resisted arrest.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:03 am
by bluetick
New Lincoln Project ad.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:12 am
by eCat
I saw where looters in New York high end shopping districts were arrested - some of them were from out of town, one group with Arizona licenses plates. These people are so oppressed they leave their state to protest for George Floyd and honor him by looting high end shopping boutiques in Soho.
Thats actually now a criminal organization, not protesting.
red dot time.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:25 am
by Jungle Rat
"Here is the guy that burned down the Nashville Courthouse. I'm sure he did it because of George Floyd right? He's the kind of guy that will OD on heroin with his 2 year and 8 month old in the car of a walmart parking lot. He isn't oppressed, he is trash. I wish he resisted arrest."
Good lord.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:41 am
by hedge
"big difference when they come onto your land and abuse you"
I thought the ranchers occupied public lands (heavily armed) and dared anybody to fuck with them?
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:13 am
by eCat
land they had been grazing on for decades
he didn't decide to show his contempt for oppression by going out an looting the local Brooks Brothers. He just demanded to be allowed to do what his family had been rightfully doing for years.
I'm really lost on why you can't see the difference. Burning down another Americans livelihood 30 or 700 miles from your home because you think you have a cause or standing your ground when the government tries to force you off of it.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:26 am
by aTm
hedge wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:11 pm
"but people breaking into police stations, or city halls or occupied residences or something like that should absolutely be dealt with in severe ways escalating from dispersal, to non-lethal, to lethal if it doesnt stop."
Look man, I'm all for law and order, I've got plenty to lose if the world goes to hell. But you're acting like local police and some half ass national guard squad full of weekend warriors (see First Blood) is going to be able to stop a literal flood of truly pissed off people. Have you ever watched The Walking Dead? Or the last season of Game of Thrones? That's what you could be dealing with, hoards of people that won't stop. And if you kill a few dozen of them in a rage for "law and order", their numbers will then increase exponentially. Rinse and repeat. Yeah, you might get some momentary satisfaction that some scofflaws got what was coming to them, but then you're going to get a flood of people who were activated and weaponized by the very "law and order" response that satisfied you so much. It's in my best interest that people stay calm. I suspect it's in your best interest as well. You start shooting up a bunch of protesters (or rioters or whatever the fuck you want to call them) then things are going to escalate quickly. I'm sure that's in somebody's best interest, but I don't think it's in mine or yours...
I'm not for firing on protests, protestors, or really even on looters or rioters at all ( I just want them prosecuted from criminal activity that can be proven after the fact). I am for using escalating force to protect people from violent mobs when those mobs actually attack and put people in real danger (ie attempting to assault occupied buildings or widespread arson, basically attempting to kill people). I also am not advocating an immediate lethal response either. Your stories about a real life mob resembling the walking dead or an army from game of thrones are a fascinating literal projection of fantasy onto real life though.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:35 am
by hedge
It's not a projection, it's a metaphor for what I could see happening if the police started mowing people down. I meant it as an illustration of the sheer overwhelming numbers, not that they were mindless zombies...
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:41 am
by hedge
"he didn't decide to show his contempt for oppression by going out an looting the local Brooks Brothers. He just demanded to be allowed to do what his family had been rightfully doing for years."
OK, I will admit I don't know the full details, but I do think there's at least some comparison to a butt-hurt rancher who is pissed b/c maybe some rules changed and he wasn't getting what he evidently felt was his "right" to use public lands (even if that had been something that had been afforded to him in the past) so he brings in a cadre of armed friends (not thugs of course, oh no, not thugs) and occupies (I'll say it again) public land b/c he's not getting his way. I will also say again that I support law and order and that anybody caught doing anything illegal should be arrested and charged and then let the court sort it out. That's what I call law and order, not indiscriminate shooting into a crowd...
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:44 am
by aTm
Its not a disciplined army, its not zombies, its a mob. They run away not continue attacking. Now if its just you trying to do it on your own out front of your house, yes I dont recommend it. You'll end up like the guy in Dallas with the sword this weekend who Im not sure exactly how he survived.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:44 am
by eCat
anybody wonder why a person would need an AR with a high capacity clip now?
because this wasn't stopped when it should have been. I think that's an empty threat but defines a clear case for self protection.
The police won't stand up to this crowd and now they are threatening to go out into the suburbs.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:51 am
by eCat
hedge wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:41 am
"he didn't decide to show his contempt for oppression by going out an looting the local Brooks Brothers. He just demanded to be allowed to do what his family had been rightfully doing for years."
OK, I will admit I don't know the full details, but I do think there's at least some comparison to a butt-hurt rancher who is pissed b/c maybe some rules changed and he wasn't getting what he evidently felt was his "right" to use public lands (even if that had been something that had been afforded to him in the past) so he brings in a cadre of armed friends (not thugs of course, oh no, not thugs) and occupies (I'll say it again) public land b/c he's not getting his way. I will also say again that I support law and order and that anybody caught doing anything illegal should be arrested and charged and then let the court sort it out. That's what I call law and order, not indiscriminate shooting into a crowd...
he brought those friends in because the ATF has a history of shooting people - Ruby Ridge, Waco. Everyone who knew about him taking a stand felt that the ATF would shoot him, take his cattle (which they tried and failed ). This confrontation was publicized ahead of time. He didn't bring the fight to them however -utlimately he lost, he went to jail for 2 years and will never be able to make a living in ranching like his family has done for 60 or so years.
But here is what I know - had Clive Bundy been shot in the head, there would have been no rioting, no looting, no attacking innocent business owners, People would have been outraged and they would have reached out to their local officials to drive change in tactics. OR they would have blown up a federal building in Oklahoma City (ok, so one rogue guy) And as you have mentioned, its not like this isn't happening over and over again. From isolated incidents to the more well known ones you have mentioned.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:02 am
by hedge
"OR they would have blown up a federal building in Oklahoma City (ok, so one rogue guy)"
