The Goat Pen

I understand that it's not as simple as saying "well, if you've done your job as a parent, your kids won't do it," b/c there are plenty of people who have used heroin and even died from it who weren't brought up that way at all. So I am not saying blame the parents (well, not in most cases, although I'm sure there's plenty of kids in West Virginia or Cincinnati (heh) who grew up with junkie parents and just don't know any better), but if your worst nightmare does come true, do you want your kid out on the street buying god knows what from god knows who, or would you rather there be a safe place they could go and get a non-lethal, measured dose of a guaranteed pure product, with clean syringes and sterile conditions? I know I would...

I own 3 acres in Felicity.....

"I own 3 acres in Felicity...."

Maybe you should open a cemetery...

Where is Lithopolis?

No wonder Trump won the Rust Belt...

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hedge wrote:Where is Lithopolis?

remember on 60 minutes when they talked about Pickerington?

that's where the kids from Pickerington buy their heroin

Everybody says Lithopolis with a lisp...

hedge wrote:"I own 3 acres in Felicity...."

Maybe you should open a cemetery...

talk about bad timing. I bought right before heroin exploded around here.

I doubt I could sell it for what I paid for it.

"remember on 60 minutes when they talked about Pickerington?

that's where the kids from Pickerington buy their heroin"

That's what I'm talking about. Would you rather your kid be buying and using heroin in Lithopolis or in a clean, regulated facility? Obviously the answer is neither, but we're dealing with worst case scenario here. And the undeniable and unchangeable fact is, heroin is and always will be available in Lithopolis, or Cincinnati, or Salt Lake City or anywhere, irregardless of what laws are on the books or what law enforcement efforts try to do or what parents or just concerned citizens wish could be the case. None of that is going to eradicate or really even put a dent in the supply of drugs in this country. Not a dent. So do you regulate it and make it as safe as possible or just keep going like we have been for a century? I realize many people simply don't want to admit defeat, the war on drugs is kinda like Vietnam in that regard, but we all know how that turned out...

Heroin is everywhere. Even here in Snobville

You should try it...

Who says I haven't?

eCat wrote:

hedge wrote:"I own 3 acres in Felicity...."

Maybe you should open a cemetery...

talk about bad timing. I bought right before heroin exploded around here.

I doubt I could sell it for what I paid for it.

Not if you think big and build a safe space for junkies to shoot their horse and chill. Stop whining and start winning, e.

hedge wrote:And the undeniable and unchangeable fact is, heroin is and always will be available in Lithopolis, or Cincinnati, or Salt Lake City or anywhere, irregardless of what laws are on the books or what law enforcement efforts try to do or what parents or just concerned citizens wish could be the case. None of that is going to eradicate or really even put a dent in the supply of drugs in this country. Not a dent.

Sad but true.

I'm fatalistically in favor of legalization of drugs. But I'm not so sure about making heroin addiction treatment another government entitlement. Making the adult conscious decision to do heroin is a lot like deciding you are going to stay at your beach house and ride out the approaching category 5 hurricane. It is such a reckless decision that you deserve to lose your right for some government first responder to come to your rescue once you begin to feel the inevitable dire consequences of your stupid decision.

I have no problem treating drug addicts as opposed to sending them to jail

however the problem is that drug addiction plays a huge role as a contributor to other crimes - in state prisons, depending on how you define the statistics, anywhere from 25% to 51% of prisoners are in prison related to supporting a drug habit or distribution - thats criminal behavior under the use of drugs, theft or prostitution to support a drug habit and or system (production, distribution. transporting and sale of drugs)

70% of probationers have reported past drug use.

40% of violent crimes in college are drug related
47% of violent crimes in the workplace are drug related


I'm not sure I believe that treatment, especially given the likely relapse, is money particularly well spent in preventing criminal acts against society for drug addiction.

Nor do I believe that legalizing a drug with a highly addictive nature is going to prevent the criminal activity associated with supporting the drug habit. Only the system related crime would be affected by legalization or prohibition.

In other words, legalization just removes the drug dealer from the equation - who in all honesty is doing a pretty good job of keeping prices low. Heroin would not be cheaper once its regulated and taxes are added into the equation. Low price is the reason addicts are switching to heroin to begin with.

Point of clarification: I am not saying that first responders should not respond to drug addicts in life threatening situations. Of course, they should respond to drug overdoses just like they do to drunk drivers in car wrecks. I am suggesting that drug addicts should not automatically be entitled to government funded rehab any more than drunk drivers are automatically entitled to government funded alcohol rehab.

I'm not really saying that either, although it's likely cheaper than the alternative in the long run. But if you had privately run regulated facilities where people could do drugs in a clean, safe environment, the facility could provide all sorts of incentives, like medical personnel onsite in case of OD (doesn't have to be a doctor, just some low level nurse with Narcan) and you have the benefit of all the addicts being accounted for and not out on the streets...

The opioid problem is largely through legal drugs sold through the black market. Pharmaceutical companies are the new super cartels. That issue can be directly and effectively addressed if politicians can stop sucking big pharma's cock long enough to realize what's going on

It's much easier to make one type of opioid (heroin) illegal and then demonize everyone that has anything to do with it than take on big pharma. There is literally no difference b/w heroin and any other opioid except maybe potency, but clearly there are others legal products, like phentanyl (sp?) that are much more potent that heroin. At the very least heroin should be put in the same schedule as any other opioid like morphine or demarol or whatever, the fact that it's a Schedule I drug classified as "no medical use" and therefor subject to ridiculously higher levels of punishment if you get caught with it is absurd. But again, it's much easier for the politicians and to have fake distractions, however ridiculous, in order to keep the public distracted from thinking about real solutions to real problems...

You guys have no idea about addiction.