The Goat Pen

what economic or political condistions should exist that necessitate an increase in taxes????????

Owlman wrote:

I agree that makes sense. Of course, you'd have to be an idiot not to have noticed by now that our government NEVER does that.

Not true. Bill Clinton.

Wrong. Revenues increased as a result of a booming economy (thanks to Y2k/dot.com). Government spending increased every year -- just like it always does. You guys always want to point to the late '90s, but that was an unsual circumstance. Look at the 1990 budget agreement, where Congress coerced Bush,Sr. into going back on his "Read My Lips" pledge, in exchange for $2 in spending cuts for every $1 in tax increase. The taxes were raised, but the cuts never materialized.

Revenues increased because of a tax increase and decreased spending which helped a booming economy.

Just like always, you guys don't want to look at the facts. Taxes went up, spending went down compared to what was projected and/or planned, we took in more than we put out. (if you don't understand business and economics, just say so).

Let's try it again:

what economic or political condistions should exist that necessitate an increase in taxes????????

what economic or political condistions should exist that necessitate an increase in taxes????????

When the Cubs win the World Series, but not until then.

BOJ hit the nail on the head. When you take the crack pipe away from the crackhead, they behave exactly like liberals are right now. I'm sure it FEELS like the world is coming to an end, for them, but it isn't. It is merely a facing up to the cold hard reality. They made a bunch of stupid decisions, and now they are going feel some pain as a result.

The big problem the liberals have in this debate is they are advocating "solutions" that no average American in their right mind would imitate in running their own household. NOBODY in their right mind thinks the solution to overwhelming debt is even more overwhelming debt. If a typical American family operated like the Dem's, then they would have already maxed out ten credit cards, buying boob jobs, cruises, BMW's, gym memberships, big screen tv's, etc. Their minimum monthly payments will soon exceed their take home pay.

Now they demand an eleventh credit card, so that they can go on spending just like they have been. Responsible American families know that the worst thing anybody can do is give to wild spendaholics that eleventh credit card. It is time for them to be FORCED to quit spending so irresponsibly. That is the conservative approach which is well understood by average Americans.

The liberal argument in the debate is to go ahead and give them that eleventh card. It will be just too painful on that spendaholic to forgo that dreamy country club membership. The liberal argument flunks the common sense test and everyday experience of most Americans.

Owlman wrote:

I agree that makes sense. Of course, you'd have to be an idiot not to have noticed by now that our government NEVER does that.

Not true. Bill Clinton.

Bill Clinton with a Republican congress. I'm willing to go back to Clinton tax rates if you are willing to reduce spending down to 18% of GDP just like Clinton and Republican congress did in 2000.

Bill Clinton with a Republican congress. I'm willing to go back to Clinton tax rates if you are willing to reduce spending down to 18% of GDP just like Clinton and Republican congress did in 2000.

Agreed. Moreover, Bill Clinton was the most fiscally responsible president of my lifetime.

what economic or political conditions should exist that necessitate an increase in taxes????????

Since the Cubs are neither economic condition nor a political condition, you of course refused to anser the question.

so again, what economic or political condistions should exist that necessitate an increase in taxes????????

so again, what economic or political condistions should exist that necessitate an increase in taxes????????

As soon as the federal government demonstrates a consistent ability to be good stewards and efficient managers of the taxpayer money they already receive. This would be indicated by a few decades of balanced budgets, abolition of the hundreds of useless government programs, not raiding entitlement trust funds for pork, etc. Then, and only then, is a tax increase called for. But by then, it will also be unnecessary, won't it?

Owlman wrote:

what economic or political conditions should exist that necessitate an increase in taxes????????

Since the Cubs are neither economic condition nor a political condition, you of course refused to anser the question.

so again, what economic or political condistions should exist that necessitate an increase in taxes????????

I think if you are below 18% of GDP in revenues collected you need to find more sources of revenue. The link below shows that historically, no matter what the tax brackets, you will not collect more than 20% of GDP. In 2013, Clinton tax rates come back in by law. It is projected it will bring in about 19% of GDP. That's about as good as you can get. Any more increase in rates will not bring in much more because history tells us that. So, the obvious correction is to bring spending down to 18-19% of GDP. Otherwise, you are not serious about deficit reduction.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts ... opic3id=23

TheBigMook wrote:You act like we haven't been cutting taxes all this time as well.

We've spent more and collected less.

The logical fix would be to spend less and collect more. Not just spend less.

No. We've collected more and spent even more.

Deficit narrowed every year from 2003 to 2007 as tax revenue increased more than spending.

Then in jobs were lost and revenue decreased and spending went up dramatically.

We need more taxpayers...aka...more jobs and reduced spending in defense, and major structural changes to SS and Medicare.

So the "Bush era tax cuts" are a myth? Interesting of you to say so.

"The first graph shows the difference between budget projections and budget reality. In 2001, President George W. Bush inherited a surplus, with projections by the Congressional Budget Office for ever-increasing surpluses, assuming continuation of the good economy and President Bill Clinton’s policies. But every year starting in 2002, the budget fell into deficit. In January 2009, just before President Obama took office, the budget office projected a $1.2 trillion deficit for 2009 and deficits in subsequent years, based on continuing Mr. Bush’s policies and the effects of recession. Mr. Obama’s policies in 2009 and 2010, including the stimulus package, added to the deficits in those years but are largely temporary."



"The second graph shows that under Mr. Bush, tax cuts and war spending were the biggest policy drivers of the swing from projected surpluses to deficits from 2002 to 2009. Budget estimates that didn’t foresee the recessions in 2001 and in 2008 and 2009 also contributed to deficits. Mr. Obama’s policies, taken out to 2017, add to deficits, but not by nearly as much."


How the Deficit Got This Big
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opini ... 4sun4.html

Since before the Magna Carta, taxes are increased to pay for wars.

We're still paying on the debt for the Revolutionary War. It is what it is. That's the price of freedom. Watching the repubs sink this country because of childish, self absorbed election year politics is fun to watch.

Owlman wrote:
"The first graph shows the difference between budget projections and budget reality. In 2001, President George W. Bush inherited a surplus, with projections by the Congressional Budget Office for ever-increasing surpluses, assuming continuation of the good economy and President Bill Clinton’s policies. But every year starting in 2002, the budget fell into deficit. In January 2009, just before President Obama took office, the budget office projected a $1.2 trillion deficit for 2009 and deficits in subsequent years, based on continuing Mr. Bush’s policies and the effects of recession. Mr. Obama’s policies in 2009 and 2010, including the stimulus package, added to the deficits in those years but are largely temporary."



"The second graph shows that under Mr. Bush, tax cuts and war spending were the biggest policy drivers of the swing from projected surpluses to deficits from 2002 to 2009. Budget estimates that didn’t foresee the recessions in 2001 and in 2008 and 2009 also contributed to deficits. Mr. Obama’s policies, taken out to 2017, add to deficits, but not by nearly as much."


How the Deficit Got This Big
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opini ... 4sun4.html

Owlman agrees, we nee to bring down spending to Clinton era levels...

Owl, you asked a question about when to raise taxes.

It's like this, there's two different situations at play. One is a hard working, responsible adult who has always been conservative with his use of credit cards. He just got a new job in another city that will pay him more, but will be without a paycheck for a month. He needs a new credit card or a credit limit increase to get him through that one month without income so he can pay his bills. I say give it to him. He has a proven track record, and has the means to pay the extra debt and will likely pay it of ASAP.

Then you have the other situation. This person only works occasionally, refuses to do anything to better themselves and continues to abuse credit cards, only pay the minimum and continuously max out the ones they have. They already owe 3 times their annual income in credit card debt, don't have any prospects for a better job, and they want another credit card so they can go to a party in Florida next week, they want a new car cause the one they have is a year old, and they want a new big screen TV. No they shouldn't get another credit card. Those are the ones that will pitch the fit, screaming and crying about how the world is going to end. This is our gubment. They don't need another credit card, and more importantly they don't DESERVE another credit card. They have already proven exactly what they will do with it, they will max it out and then find new friviolous stuff to spend every dime they can get their hands on. It has played out over and over and over again.

It's time for it to stop.

Good grief

Can't wait for this DVD of "Analogies Gone Wild" to come through the mail. It sounds awesome!

[youtube]5hfYJsQAhl0[/youtube]

Big Orange Junky wrote:Owl, you asked a question about when to raise taxes.

It's like this, there's two different situations at play. One is a hard working, responsible adult who has always been conservative with his use of credit cards. He just got a new job in another city that will pay him more, but will be without a paycheck for a month. He needs a new credit card or a credit limit increase to get him through that one month without income so he can pay his bills. I say give it to him. He has a proven track record, and has the means to pay the extra debt and will likely pay it of ASAP.

Then you have the other situation. This person only works occasionally, refuses to do anything to better themselves and continues to abuse credit cards, only pay the minimum and continuously max out the ones they have. They already owe 3 times their annual income in credit card debt, don't have any prospects for a better job, and they want another credit card so they can go to a party in Florida next week, they want a new car cause the one they have is a year old, and they want a new big screen TV. No they shouldn't get another credit card. Those are the ones that will pitch the fit, screaming and crying about how the world is going to end. This is our gubment. They don't need another credit card, and more importantly they don't DESERVE another credit card. They have already proven exactly what they will do with it, they will max it out and then find new friviolous stuff to spend every dime they can get their hands on. It has played out over and over and over again.

It's time for it to stop.

I am laughing that you think these are the only two scenarios while completely ignoring the person that loses his job at age 50 and is unable to get another one or the person who's job is moved to another part of the country or the fact that we exponentially increase are debt with wars that are unpaid for. What should stop is the simplistic look at a complicated problem.